Keter Betts

S = Standifer
KB = Keter Betts

S Jackie and Jennie. And here come the twins. Which one is Jackie?
J1 I am.
S That's Jackie.
J2 I'm Jennie.

S And this is Jennie. This is Mr. Keter Betts -- plural.
J & J What are you doing, Dad?
KB Well, we're doing things, I'll explain it to you. How is school?

S So, Keter, you were born again -- not born again --
KB Yes. Second time around.

S Where did I say you were born at?
KB Port Chester.

S Port Chester. Is that upstate New York?
KB That's 27 miles north of New York City.

S Okay. Did you get into New York very often, being so close there?
KB When I started taking drum lessons. I'd be in New York every Saturday.

S Who was your first teacher?
KB His name was Bill West.

S In New York City?
KB In New York City, he was somewhere between 46 & Broadway.

S When did you begin to do work professionally?
KB Well, in the 40s, or 45.

S You were young then.
KB Yes, I was 13 or 14.

S Can you remember when you got your first check for a professional job?
KB I know that sometimes I got paid $5 _______. Can't beat it.

S Did you play with the group? Or did you just start off?
KB We had local young guys there -- Horace Silver was the tenor player, and Consona(?) always played tenor and piano, and Horace played tenor and I was playing drums. And we added people right up in that area of the Westchester County. We used to play basketball, dances after the games.

S Who were the big names at the time playing around that you heard?
KB Well, you see, when I went out for my lessons every Saturday in New York, I would always get the paper Friday night and check out who was at the Polo(?), who was at the Roxie, who was at the Paramount and who's at the Strand. And then after I had my half-hour lesson I would say, well I'm going to see two shows. Maybe Basie at one place and Woody Herman in another, and sometimes I'd see three shows. I'd get the subway and go up to see one at the Polo, and I'd come home about 8 in the afternoon.

S Was there any particular people or persons that you were emulating as a drummer at the time?
KB I was watching all drummers. I was fascinated by Neal Spencer, who was with John Curry(?) because I heard he was still playing the brushes like chunachuchuchu__. He had a ____ like a pchssssssss. You just heard this sweep. So, I saw him. Chris Columbus.

S Oh.
KB Razz Mitchell who played with the Savoy Sultans(?).

S Was it unusual for drummers to have, or to be in charge of their own band?
KB At that time?

S Yes, because I know J.C. Hurts had his own group in the Twin Cities.
KB Yes, but after, I think after Chick Web became the big _____, a drummer with a band that was very fashionable for drummers, cause let's see, you had Gene Krupa who had a band, and later on, Buddy Rich had one. Chris Columbus. The drummers were a big feature part of any orchestra. --Noisy -- And I would sit and watch the drummers. My whole thing was watching drummers. I was fascinated by them and I went to see Max Roach for the first time, I've seen the tap dance thing of Davey Lawrence and the battle that Max Roach and Davey Lawrence had, and then I went to see Cab Calloway who was at the Roxie, and of course, Cozy Toe was working with him.

S Oh, really.
KB But Cozy had just left a band and he had a new drummer working. This drummer took a drum solo and I was fascinated by it, and Lamar Francis. So, I said, I've got to meet this guy, and I asked how to get backstage to the Roxie and by the time I found backstage and got back there, he had left. But, I ran into Milt Henton and he said "come on, I'll treat you to lunch." And he took me to lunch and we talked and I told him about how I liked bass fiddle and blah, blah, blah, and just had a long talk with him at lunch. Within 3 months, I got a bass fiddle.

S Just from talking.
KB Well, I mean, he inspired me that much and I had fooled around with one at school, you know?

S Yeah.
KB I think one of the things about the drums that's bad is we lived in an apartment and we lived up on the fourth floor. And with all the work that I was doing with these drums, I had to carry these drums up and down -- 4 flights of stairs -- and dumped them in the car and everything, using my mother's car and it was getting kind of hectic. But I was very inspired by Milt Henton, so I said, maybe I might switch to bass. And we didn't have many good bass players around that area at that time. I might switch to bass and I talked to my aunt and we had a family conference, and she lent me the money and provided space. I had a new "K" bass, and then Bill Henly who gave me Al Holmes' number, but Al was just working in pits downtown and he gave this fellow my number. So, I took the train down, I called him and set up some lessons, and I would get the train from Port Chester to New York which is 27 minutes, then get the shuttle into Times Square and get the subway to Brooklyn which was a half an hour, and walk three blocks to take a half-hour lesson. And he told me to go on back home.

S So, the amount of convenience would have a little to do with this, too, then.
KB Yeah. There was a lot of inconvenience as far as the travel time for a half-hour lesson.

S Right.
KB But one is if you've got the desire and you want to learn, that half-hour lesson can be like a whole day of what you've learned in that half hour. That means you have to go through, as far as travel, that's insignificant. That's the significance because we've got this desire to want to learn, and I started working jobs with me playing or drums and, you know, right around then I decided the bass was going to be it. Then, I started watching all the bass players at the shows, etc., checking out the bass players.

S Do you ever feel though as a young person it is very _____ ____ playing bass that you had sort of a filler role, not a solo role and did it ever have any ...?
KB There wasn't much of a solo then, but I used to write solos for something. I saw a picture and it's called "Black Orchid" something and I ________, and they just did a little thing out there where he played a little part of "The Man I Love" then I heard this record with Jimmy Glenn with Duke Ellington playing "Pitter Pat Pan" and "Sophisticated Lady", and I said, hmm, when I've been hearing a bass before, they used to put in a completely light, and that's where I'm going.

S When did you begin to emerge to what would be called the Keter Betts style that I hear so much about that seems to be -- well, most performers develop a style or hammer out something that is uniquely yours. Do you remember when you began to settle down and mature?
KB With Dianna Washington.

S With Dianna Washington?
KB Yes. It really started with Dianna Washington.

S Was there anything that she did, though?
KB Well, up until then, I was strictly with instrumental things. In other words we working with little jazz thing, I went with Al Bostic(?) which was Rhythm & Blues and it wasn't quite my complete kind of music. But, I went with the band. I was going on 21. I was 20 then when I went out on the road and I said "this is my chance to see the country", and I'd study geography and history, etc., and it gave me a chance to see the country at a young age, so I said "Alright, I'll go ____." And then, about a year or so later, he needed a drummer and I got Jimmy Talbs(?) for the band. And he used to go out with a lot of different singers and we went over to Dianna Washington and she had a very young piano player with her and we struck it off right from the get-go, so she wondered if Jimmy and I would join her, so we joined her and now, I'm the oldest guy in the group and I was just 23.

S Now, for example, I hear you do some very interesting changes -- harmonically as well as melodically -- when you're playing with Ella as a solo almost, because you become, well maybe it's a duet, actually, because you're doing your thing and she's doing hers, but then some of us who hear you say that it almost emerges as a bass tour de force as they say in music schools, which in essence puts Ella as accompanying you. When did that begin to emerge? I don't see too many bass players doing that.
KB No, well, really I'm accompanying her. It's just a thing that we do. We've done accompanying style. We'll work on a few more. We will have a rehearsal in a couple of weeks to get a couple more tunes together. Of course, there some change in pace, but we got ahead of ___ ____. But it's soft, it's very pleasant and it's nothing new --Peggy Lee, then back with Afema(?), where I did a bass thing way back there some time ago and quite a few others singers have done a lot with just bass.

S But there seems to be something different from what I hear with "Fever" and as a musician I think some of the differences -- the harmonic movement that I seem to hear that I didn't hear with "Fever" maybe because it doesn't call for it.
KB Well, when you're dealing with Ella Fitzgerald.

S That causes some differences right there, huh?
KB Right. It changes the temperature there.

S Are you also putting some more contemporary abstract sounds in there that are not uniquely string bass sounds?
KB Yes. Because

S And how do you achieve those sounds?
KB You go inside the instrument.

S ooooh. Can you explain that a little bit more _____?
KB No, there's two ways to play it. You could play into the instrument, you could play outside the instrument, which 75% of the people do, and then you can play inside out. When you play inside out, you're actually ___ ____ ____. And that's when you know you're doing some of your best horn players, some of your best jazz -- they can sit down in anybody's -- Sam Stewart(?) can pick up anybody's bass and sound the same, because he's playing out the instrument instead of playing into it. Art Tatum would sit down at an old out-of-tune piano and make it sound like it was a brand new Steinway almost. Because he's playing out of the instrument instead of playing into it.

S I'm still not quite clear on playing on the two.
KB On the what?

S I'm not still ­ the contrast that you've made makes sense, but I'm still not too clear -- Can you give me a more specific example in terms of two different sounds -- one out of instrument and one into the instrument. I know you don't have the instrument here and it'll make it more difficult.
KB You see, you hear a sound in your mind. You have a tone stay on your mind and you hear the sound on your mind. You hear the sound that you want. It's just like a human voice. A human voice is the greatest instrument of all. And you could take one song and for 3, 4 or 5 singers, I'd say 5 singers used to sing one chorus in that one song. Now, of course, you're going to get 5 different interpretations of the words, but you want to hear 5 different sounds, too. But it is still coming from the human voice. And so, what I've done in respect is to take the instrument itself -- the bass fiddle -- and try to get the sound out of it that I want, that I hear. So, I'm actually, what I hear is me coming out of the instrument instead of me trying to put the sounds into the bass, pulling it out.

S Let me add the more specific. Are you getting sounds by doing something unusual to the strings or to the wood into the body?
KB No, no, no, no, no electronics.

S Oh, abstract sounds.
KB No, no, no, no, no. No wah, wah, wahs, or nothing like that. It's just that you hear the sound that you want for a certain little thing, and you go in and you pull it out. There's no magic. I can show you some magic tricks, you know, what I mean, if I did some cards. The cards are there. It just means going into the bass to pull this thing out.

S Do you read music? Or do you read charts? And, did you start out by reading music with your lessons, or did that come later?
KB Yes. We started learning the classical way. Started with classical books, started with some ____ book and learned to read and _____ and learned the instrument, which was very fortunate then, was the fact that when we were way out in Port Chester and there were clubs in New Rochelle, all within the radius of say 20 miles there might have been 4 or 5 clubs. Stanford, ____, Bridgeport, New Haven, White Plains, and so the guys would have little jam sessions like a Saturday afternoon, Monday night, Tuesday night here, or Wednesday night there. And these were proving grounds. So, what you would actually do is say, "well, I think I've got myself pretty well together, we're going here tonight" and see if you could sit in they would let you sit in, and bring you there and either spank you real good, dust you off, and then you put your tail between your legs and you go home and you say, "well, here is where I got the boot shut off. Could be that I don't know too many tunes." So, you'd have to go learn tunes, or tempos were so fast. So, you go home and work on it. Building stamina. Building stamina when I was able 2 years later to get 2 basses, I would keep one bass with the strings up high and would practice on that. Or practice scales at tempos like do-do-do-do....I'd keep working it until I could work it up faster, do-do-do-do.... Trying to work up until you get that fast and flowing very easily, it's not going to .... You've got to practice...like ____ have to do, you know. They go out there and practice 4 or 5 hours a day, and then maybe in a couple of weeks, maybe you go back to this jam session and see what happens. Now, you see that you're improving and when you finally had it made and in sync with it, but at the time maybe it'll be six months to a year, cause when you go to the place and them say, "Hey, look. We've got to get him up here." You know then that you've crossed the barrier. Before, when they began to say, "Oh, look who's out there. Boy, we don't want to get him up here." So, your peers were your hardest judges.

S Right. Right.
KB As in anything, you know, with young people.

S Roy Eldridge told me that they called him "Low Jazz" because he used to play everything fast, especially up until a certain point in his life when he began to really settle down and begin to play what he calls to play music and to play ideas.
KB Right, yeah. S And he said before, it was like any young impetuous guy, he wanted to play faster than anybody he equated speed with _________
KB Speed and it was like dazzling foot work.

S Yeah. Did you go through that stage or were you fortunate enough to miss that?
KB Well, there wasn't as much of an emphasis on that with basses as there was with trumpets.

S Right.
KB And at the time that Roy came along... because Roy, you know, he traveled with Ella for quite a bit when I first came ___ ____. He used to tell, you know, they'd sit up and talk about old stories, and he'd tell some stores that were fascinated. And he told me one that the guys used to do like at a jam sessions they'd have in New York, and I've seen it done in a lot of other places, but one they used to do with Ed Snyder(?), he'd say that when a new trumpet player came to town and he's very good and then word gets out, "hey, so and so, the new trumpet player is playing," so all his peers would go down to check him out to see what he's like. And they'd see he was good, and one of them who somebody used to admire, etc., while he's playing his solo, Roy said that this guy would take his trumpet out and say, he'd stand back of the bar, take his trumpet out, and break into a solo, walk through the audience and everybody would look at him and they'd say, "Wow, look, that's so and so." And would walk right up on the stage and just push him out of the way and finished up with a hot solo and end up on a high note and then turn around as people applauded, walk on back to the audience, put his horn back in his case and walk out. That's intimidation.

S To say the least.
KB ŒI don't care about you.' But the reaction in reality, he did care, you know? Because this is a new kid on the block that's come strutting, you know, like the fish in an aquarium, you know. His territorial rights.

S Isn't there a person on bass equivalent to the internal stylistic in the way or manner in which you approach the art, that's equivalent to Miles Davis who, you know, turns his back on the audience and says in essence also, "look, what I'm doing is what I'm doing and you just happen to be here coincidentally."
KB You've got that on all the instruments. I mean, because, remember you talk about music lovers, we're just speaking of just strictly of the jazz field about all types of people. When I say "all" types, not coming from all walks of life, but all different mentalities who play jazz and there are some who are introverts and some who are extroverts, and each has their own way of doing it. It has nothing to do with their talent as far as their instruments.

S But, is there ­ I don't know enough about bass players, and this is maybe an ignorant lack of my homework, but is there a person, or are you that person who may be said to have gone very, very far field in terms of string bass playing in jazz? Experimentation, exploitation of the sounds.
KB Oh, well, there are some guys that are...

S Innovation.
KB There are some men out there.

S Who are they? Some of these.
KB Well, there are some that are completely out there. N O I

S Y
KB ...there's such a open field, whichever way they do and make their mark with it, that's fine.

S Who were some of the top jazz string bass players that you would put in the top ten, let's say.
KB Oh, yeah. There're so many young ones coming out now. There are some new ones coming out with dazzling speed, dazzling concept, because, see, by the time that I got to the bass fiddle, there were only maybe four or five forerunners who had made a big indentation in the bass field. And the instrument at the time, well, if you listened to records that came out in the 30s and you listened to the early 40s, and maybe almost up to the end of the 40s, there big band records and lots of small groups, and the bass was more or less felt ­ not really that standout and heard. Now, listen to anything that's happened from the 50s up to now, the 80s, and it's almost totally _____. That's where the basses have gone from way in the back of the band in the closet, ...

S Up to us.
KB ...right up front. You can get in any car and as son as you turn on the radio, there's a bass player, I don't care what kind of a music it is.

S Give me some names, in terms of you're on the panel and you've got to recommend the ten best bass players that come to this bass competition or bass exploration in Michigan.
KB Well, I wouldn't want to put ten. I'd have to put 20 of them, because there're so many that's contributed. I mean, there's a lot of people who _____ recognition, but they contribute so much to it, that you've kept them in the front line.

S Give me 20 then.
KB Okay. Start with all the top name guys, the ones that have arrived to the top ten.

S All right. Okay, that arrived.
KB Okay, then you go: Ray Brown, George deKrepier(?), Milt Henley; Richard Davis, Ron Carter, Neal Perris(?), George Norance,

S Of those that you've named, is there any one of those that you would attribute having trail-blazed a new technique of performing and of playing the bass?
KB Each one of those came up with something. Ray Brown came up with a ____ to take the sound back into the 50s that a lot of people had to copy. There was a certain touch, a certain sound, and then Paul Chambers came in with a couple of different sounds and concepts. You see, the thing I mentioned before about playing out of an instrument, it's just like, you can take 5 piano players and sit them down at a piano and you're going to hear ­ and have each one of them play one chorus of "body and Soul". Now, forget about the would be concepts. You're going to get 5 different senses. The same piano, but you're going to have 5 different touches aside from the concept _____ not one chorus of it, because each person has his own individual who's playing. And the same as with the basses. There are so many ­ Major Holly. Take the balance between Major Holly and Slam Stuart. Slam originated a second style with the bow, and Major Holly patterned it ____ difference. Slam sings an octave higher from he plays, and Major sings an octave lower. They just did a concert here in Washington which I wasn't in town when they did it, but I would have loved to have seen that.

S Mantudy Garland comes to me, when I first heard him in person 4 or 5 years ago, before he died, he was playing string bass. Did you know him as a bass player?
KB No. What's his name?

S Ed Mantudy Garland. He died in '95 in Los Angeles. He played with King Oliver.
KB I didn't know him, but there was a Garland that I've heard of.

S Well, it's not that important. I just wondered, because he's one that we interviewed in Los Angeles. When did you finally begin to get -- Did you ever get a trio or your own group before you got with Ella Fitzgerald?
KB Oh, yes. In fact, when I was a kid I was making more money booking all these basketball games and all that than I did playing drums. Then after Bostich, and then I went with Dina Washington and I did 5 years with her, and then I came to Washington. And I decided that I was going

S So, the chronology is from childhood experiences that you just named, to Dinah Washington.
KB To Earl Bostich.

S Or, to Earl Bostich? And his orchestra.
KB Right. He had a 7 piece group and that was the first time I went out of the family road to see the country.

S And then from there to Dinah Washington?
KB And then to Dinah Washington right from Bostich.

S And this is like you said earlier probably when you started to really mature.
KB Well, I think what happened with Dinah Washington -- because up until then, I didn't know I was talking about it earlier -- I was playing with instrumental, and then all these same tunes that we played, etc., I'd always play as an instrumentalist. And when we started working with Dinah, I started hearing the tunes as other tunes, because I saw the hands and words to the tunes. I find out all of a sudden that the tunes gave a double meaning. You know, it's just like "How High the Moon", that was always a ___ philharmonic thing and we learned to change it to that, so it was just another tune to play. Then, all of a sudden when I heard the words and how the words would, you know, and then Dinah Washington who brought out and then we started approaching these tunes with a little bit more depth to them.

S What happened to Dinah Washington?
KB Oh,

S I think it was a rhetorical sense, because we do know that something happened to her.
KB Well, I'll tell you. A lot of people had stories that went around about her that she was leaving and that because of the records that made, her reputation, etc., but I had 5_ years with her and I think that was one of the turning points in my life and one of the greatest experiences that I've had and the people that I associated with and with her. And she was responsible for a big of a molding in my life. With Dinah Washington, we'd be working with her and her singing. And she was a very warm person. She had her ways with whatever that was from, so that, don't know what her reputation was, but the people that ____ things, _____.

S All right, Kever, we're back again and now that you've told me something about Dinah and your 4 or 5 years you were with her?
KB Yes. 5 or 5_ years.

S Well, you had a trio with her at the time?
KB Yes, we had a trio.

S And who were the other principals?
KB Kelly and Jimmy Carr and they went to the Army, let's see, Burl Booker was with us for a while and the first time that I flew I went to Hawaii. Then, we had ____, different ones who went in the Army, then he came back in '54, I think, or '55, and stayed until '56.

S You left. Were there reasons? Did you want to take another job?
KB Well, I was married then and we had a child.

S You married while you were...
KB Dinah was the one that helped us get married.

S Oh, I see.
KB She set up the wedding, in other words, she set up for the church, the wedding, we got married at _____ Church. I would see him after church, and had the wedding reception at Bird Land, on a closing night. They came in with food and everything.

S How did you meet your wife. KB I met her here in Washington.

S Was that through Dinah.
KB No, no. It was another friend of mine. I guess we got married in October.

S My, God, that's what you call a whirlwind. Do you go to church?
KB Yes.

S What denomination?
KB Baptist.

S Do you perform or sing in church and all that?
KB No, because you see with my schedule where we're traveling like that, it's ...

S Did you have a chance to become involved in music at the Bowen church?
KB Yes. I taught Sunday school in church. I was a Methodist in my home town where I taught Sunday school. Sang in the Junior choir.

S I ask this because so many jazz performers say, "you know that I got my start in the church."
KB That's as far as the singer was concerned, they got that in church. And, you see, in high school where I was from, we had a ­ that part of New York State was very liberal, it was a liberal arts ____ high school. And we had harmony 1 and 2, we had theory 1 and 2, we had a ______ band, had a marching band, and we had an after-school dance band that the kids would be in. So, I majored in music through high school.

S So, you really got an awful ­ you got more musical experience in the school than most performers get.
KB You'll find that Pennsylvania was the same way, and Michigan also. This is why _____ musicians came out of Detroit. They went to ______ high school. Detroit and also in Philadelphia. They had the same thing.

S Well, it's an advantage.
KB Yeah. Because it's essential that you get these fundamental things while you're molding and stuff. And the younger you are that you can get into specialty ______, you're going to somewhere ____ experience, seeing and listening helps you. By the time you turn 19 and 20, you're pretty well, fairly seasoned.

S How late when you became associated with Ella?
KB Let's see, Ella was 64, so

S 10 years?
KB How old was I when I got to play with her?

S Yes.
KB I was about 34 or 35.

S So you were a very young man, and you were just started your family. Were you ____ a bit when you became associated with Ella at all?
KB I don't really think completely I was ______. By that time I knew there were other people didn't have a chance to do that. I had been with Cannonball Adderley, you know, I had done some work for some other people here and there, but I was just glad to be in their company, and I think Bobby Voss, what Bobby _____ was experienced in working with Dinah Washington, and I knew I had to feel her singing, and how bad you're going to become if you can't become a front runner, compared to when you're playing with instrumentalists, because you are actually accompanying someone. In fact, I tell the students, you know, you are a tailor. If a person comes in and says, "Listen, I want a coat made with a double vent in the back." You measure and you make it, you can't say "I only make one type of coat and it's with a single vent or no vent." You'll make what that person wants, so you become a tailor.

S What was one of Ella's endearing terms when you traveled together? Or unique, unusual, if there's one. Should have many.
KB Well, I think the thing that really flabbergasted me was the fact of how conscientious she is about things, about you and everyday things, "How are you feeling? How's everything at home?" You know. She's really conscientious about that, I think.

S She's a real person.
KB Real. Believe me.

S In the next hundred years of your life, what are you going to do with it? What do you want to do with your art, your music, your profession? Anything else other than what you are currently doing? That's an odd question, but...
KB Well, I would like to, you know, like if I decided to get off the road, you know, I'm going to eventually, some day I'll come off the road or something like that, is to ___ _____ ____.

S Teaching.
KB The teaching of elementary kids. ***

S This is Keter Betts at Wolf Camp, setting up for a kid's show of early childhood, ages 5, 6?
KB They've started kindergarten.

S How many of these do you have here, Keter?
KB How many?

S How many of these? Just this one here? Very noisy while he's setting up!.

S I see.
KB They've been here a year, over a year at _____.

S Oh, every Wednesdays for a year? KB Every Wednesday ever since November of year before last. Yes, every Wednesday because ___ ___ my schedule when I'm in town, except in the summer time when they have summer vacation.

S Now, of course, when you're on the road, do you try to make it back here by Wednesday to Laughter And too many people speaking at one time.
KB This is going on to our second year, plus the other schools we do in Virginia and District, which is different from this. S Sure. Well, I'll let you go ahead and set up, because I know they're coming back in. VK My name is Vertel Knox.

S Vertel Knox. Vertel have you performed with ___ ____? VK I've been with Keter Betts since the program started. We've been doing it now for 14 years.

S My goodness. VK He and I together. I love the program since I started doing it.

S Have you done any other kind of teaching? VK No, no. I'm not a teacher. This is the only thing that I teach with kids, except my other profession.

S What is your other profession? VK My other profession is I'm retired! Laughter

S Well, I can hardly wait until I get there. VK Well, it's a ____ ____. Just keep thinking about it and you'll make it.

S You probably know J.C. Herd? VK Yes, indeed.

S I just talked with him two weeks ago doing this type of thing with him down in Ann Arbor. VK Oh, yeah? It's funny you never hear about those guys since they...

S They're not out in the main stream as much. He's performing at several places in Detroit, you know, doing like maybe 3 or 4 weeks and then move to another house. VK Oh. He's still playing, right?

S Oh, yes. He's playing. VK ___ ___ about is in Detroit.

S Oh, yeah?
KB Yeah, I've been knowing him for 18 years. VK J.C. Herd. One of my favorite drummers.

S Well, he played with this Japanese pianist, Osheka, and they did a fantastic program. VK Have you ever run into Oman Gozon?

S Who is that? VK Oman Gozon.

S No, I haven't. Is he alive? VK He's alive. Good morning, Ms. Selfin.
KB Yes, he's in New York.

S I'm trying to get Hague Jones. Thad Jones, I think, ____ of Detroit this summer. VK Are you in ____ ____?

S No. I'm actually ... . A skip in the tape! VK ...day of old jazz in Apolo Theatre so the kids today can see what really happened. The thing I'm disappointed in is that he and his City, or any place else, how many schools have seen these films where I've seen them on television. This was Black History Month. You know, everybody is having Black History Month, but you know, they had a Black History Month, but all you see is what's known. It's good to know that we have a George ____ Carver and Martin Luther King, but look at all the other people who went on in our lifespan.

S All these other people like, I did, have people like Ube Black who really started this 12 years ago, and Edith Wilson, Alberta Hunter, Sippy Wallace, Little Brother Montgomery in Chicago, Mommy Yance, . . VK ...even the class, ___ ____ ___ they start asking questions. And the rest like Cab Calloway. The kid never heard of him. You know. S Right. Well this is a good time to get them early to start and teach them about it. VK Yes. That's what I say, what you're doing is going to be something for the kids. That you're making.
KB Yes.

S And that's what we're looking for. VK And the way it looks now is somebody is trying to stop all of our traditions or whatever, you know. Music plays. Then applause.

S Who is this again? VK This is John Malici. He's been _____ to influence you with a lot of the local, young artists.

S And who are some of the people he's performed with in the past? VK Kronstock, Sarah Vaughn and, noisy ... I mean he's been known to do some of those rare recordings in the past days. Unfortunately, I'm not even _____, but it's just coming to light. It's just like saving, the first day you're trying to preserve it.

S How would I go about finding, is it John? VK Yes. John Malici. Keter has his number.

S How do you spell his last name? VK M-a-l-i-c-i.

S Yes. Malici. Okay. Noisy VK A wealth of information there and a beautiful _____ and a terrific pianist.

S You probably know Little Brother Montgomery and he's done a lot of things. He's a blues pianist with Chicago, and he still living. He's about 70 or 75 years. So, those are the kinds of people that I could actually find, and put them in archives so that if your kids, my kids in the future, anyone's kids want to _____
KB Well, that's true. You know, it's very interesting because if it weren't for the older kids... You see, my big influence is Roland Kurt.

S Oh, really.
KB I came here at Howard University when they had a wealth of talented young kids. They didn't even know what they had.

S Are you at Howard now?
KB No, oh no. What I'm saying back then when everything was one dimensional, they had these talented musicians from all over the country and they were trying to make everybody classical musicians. They didn't realize they had the likes of Gary Hart, Tyrone Washington, Donny Hathaway, Danny _____. And all these people who made the Misel Brothers who are _____, but they didn't know what they had. Now, you can get a degree in Jazz. Back then they'd kick you out if you _____.

S Well, I know what you're talking about, because I'm a graduate of Fisk University and we did the same thing. Except, we did one difference that Howard didn't do, we clarified and at least crammed down the throats of the world of Black Spiritual.
KB Were they defenders? ?? Oh, no, Gospels had rules. Noisy Too many people talking at the same time. ?? You know, that was taboo. Noisy.

S Yes. I know. ?? You know, they wanted to sing in the European Convention, and I'll tell you, by far __ if we weren't by not hitting the streets and meeting, but you see, Washington had a wealth of clubs there and we could go in any clubs, and you would hear decent groups. You know, groups, trios, and that's when I met John Malici and late Bobby Timmons, and Jerome Kurk _____, and most of my peers were going into the Rock...

S Let me ask you to put your full name and address on this tape. Because I want to get in touch with you. HF Hilton Felton, 1250 Fourth Street, SW, West 815, Washington, D.C. 20024.

S Good. Thank you very much. This has been quite informative and I'll certainly ask Kever about some of this. HF Keter is over there putting his equipment away.

S Keter, a magnificent teaching. I won't say a performance because it wasn't that. I think it was ­ I learned a lot from that myself, and VK Yeah, in 20 minutes, huh? A 20-minute workout.
KB 20 minute workout. That's what it was. What you got _____?

S I'm interviewing Mr. Keter Betts in Silver Chase, Maryland, on February 22, Wednesday, at his home ­ what is the address here, Keter?
KB 2205 Clinton Road, Silver Springs, MD

S 2205 Clinton Road, Silver Springs, Maryland. Keter, today has been a very interesting day for me, because I saw you as a teacher. I don't know you as a teacher. How did you get involved in that?
KB I got involved in that through a lady here in Silver Springs. Cannot understand what he's saying! Some years ago she asked me to help her at the school and just like kids see a live performance that they hadn't seen, except what we see on TV. And I took a place instead of demonstration and she said, "well, we try to do something ____ by getting a group and maybe you could do some other schools." And that was14 years ago.

S Do you get a big kick out of this? You seem to enjoy it so much, that's why. It may be a stupid question, but it's just so seemingly incongruous to see this fabulous bass jazz bass player up there teaching these 4 and 5 year olds. How do you feel about what you do?
KB It feels like I'm exposing them to music and at the earlier, the better. To the point that I may want them to become so radio proned that all of it came out music is to have just a little small cocking radio or a big ghetto blaster, but by them seeing people up close, a performance that might inspire one or two, or if you can take one out of 50 to be a musician, or be a something into the arts...

S You say they're beyond themselves, because, like you say, one or two -- if there was just one or two would result from this type of experience, I'm not sure it would be worth it.
KB I'm just saying out of 50.

S Right. KB Maybe you'll get 2 out of 50.

S Right, but I saw massive involvement. I saw kids popping their fingers who probably never kept a beat before. KB Well, you see, what a lot of people don't realize is that in playing music, especially playing any type of rhythmic music, 75 percent of your battle is won in the beginning because every person themselves have rhythm within them ­ their heartbeat's in rhythm, their blood flow is in rhythm, they talk in rhythm, they write in rhythm, the run in rhythm. So, the minute that you start playing in rhythm, you've got 75 percent of the battle is won. You didn't think of it like that, did you?

S No. I didn't. You see, it gave me pause to think a little bit a while. You're right. Well, when you see a youngster like today, that little boy who got up and without any encouragement from any of us, sort of took over. How would you try, if you had to evaluate the child's musical ability in that way, what would you say about him?
KB I would say that he definitely, he seemed to be a very quiet type of kid. He didn't say anything, but he knew there was something that he was good at that was better than the other kids, and that he felt this feeling that came over him, and he knew he could do it good. So, he stood up and started doing it.

S I found it amazing that he would even do this alone and in public, if I can use that term.
KB Well, they always say that music soothes the savage beast, but also, I think that music can bring out the savage in the soother's beast.

S Well, okay, it did something to him, it was like listening in church for a while. You had Mr. Felton on piano and Mr. Knox on drums. How did you happen to get these guys together, or are they you're trio?
KB Well, they started with me in the beginning. After I started to do some solo things, and I figured I would ___ that I knew they used to deal with kids. And he was willing to bet it wasn't. So, I started with him and there was another piano player for 10 years or so, then we would use another piano player up until a few months ago when he moved to New York. But, you have to -- in picking the people -- you have to pick the people who have the right temperament to deal with children, because most of these things are early in the morning, and you get guys who were up working until 2:00 o'clock at night, and they've got to be in a school at 8:30 or 9 o'clock in the morning dealing with children, there's a lot of them who can't handle that.

S And anyway, you work well together, too. You seem to play off each and you knew what the other was doing.
KB It's not what you'd say is a -- it's pretty spontaneous. We have a general idea, but then it's pretty spontaneous because each audience, each day that we do this, each audience is different. And you're dealing with a mixture of between Kindergarten to Sixth Grade. Well, that wolf trap is just kindergarten head start. When we play the schools like we're doing this month and next month we go to 13 schools, and this will go from kindergarten to sixth grade. So, we do two shows -- tomorrow we'll do 2 shows. We'll do one -- is that my phone?

S We're back again with Keter Betts. So, Keter, you were saying that you chose these men that you work with...
KB They have to have a good temperament with children and dependability, on time, being there on time, because we're playing at different schools.

S Why would you think -- when you say dependability -- isn't that a given?
KB Not necessarily. I mean, to me, this is a finer step, ____ my time from the people I work with, but everything that I do is on time. When they hired me to work in a club I would be at a hotel and the show starts at 9 o'clock. That means I have to be there all set up ready to play.

S I guess what I was saying is that since these are pearls that you're working with, wouldn't you expect them to be on time anyway? Or are you suggesting that they
KB Well, there's a lot not dependable.

S Like any other profession, right?
KB That's right. So you've got to get the people that you know are reliable and dependable and who can handle the job. That's all.

S Sometimes we expect, especially musicians and professionals, to be a little bit more professional because you are used to keeping those kinds of schedules. Now, I think sometimes we assume that professionals, particularly professional musicians, since you're dealing with television and other professional organizations that automatically know that you've got a gig coming, school or no you're going to be there at a certain time.
KB Yes. Well, but there are a few just like anything else, regardless of how great their talent is, there are sometimes some faculties ____ ____.

S Let me ask you some quick rather mundane historical questions. Where were you born?
KB Port Chester, New York.

S Did you grow up in Port Chester?
KB I grew up in Port Chester.

S How long were you there before you left?
KB I didn't go out until I was 19.

S Were your parents musicians?
KB Nope. I had an aunt who played piano by ear. And that's all.

S How did you get motivated to get into the business?
KB When I was in 6th grade. My mama sent me to the store one day around the corner to a grocery store that we had an account with to get a loaf of bread and a bottle of milk. I came back about 5 hours later. Following a parade around town, and that's when I knew that I wanted to be in music.

S How did that happen? Did you have an instrument in your hand then?
KB No. I just followed the drums.

S What was your first instrument?
KB Drums. My mother bought me a new snare drum. I started with the drums. I used to have a teach who would come once a week to the school and teach kids any instrument that they wanted. He knew a little bit about all the instruments and that's how it started.

S Okay. Great.

END OF TAPE