Charles Handy

S = Standifer
H = Charles Handy

S The Dark Town Strutters....
H ....A Good Man is Hard to Find.

S Oh, A good man is hard to find...
H ....wrote that. Handy.... published that. That was a big hit 60 years ago.

S 60 years ago? What else do you know about it?
H Well, I know that we published it, A Good Man is Hard to Find.

S You sing it then.
H Didn't have singers then like they have them today. They had vaudeville, circuit, and.... circuit and when singers and artists, Eubie Blake, Alberta Hunter, Will.... at the Palace Theatre.

S So Shelton Brooks was a black composer. What else did Shelton Brooks do. Did he perform also?
H You will have to let me.... on those things. I would like to get through with A Good Man is Hard to Find.

S Who composed that?
H Eddie Green.

S Was Eddie Green black?
H Yes, Eddie Green was black. Eddie Green wrote that, Handy Brothers published it. In 1919 February I went to Penn Station and bought 10,000 miles of tickets to make a trip across this country selling music at 10 cents a copy.

S Was that Eddie Green, A Good Man is Hard to Find, how much did that sell for originally?
H Wait a minute that is a most important piece of music. But since you mentioned it, I'll just tell you about that. Studying music. Now when you study music, St. Louis Blues was a biggest seller. My brother's Blues was the biggest seller. Not only that his blues. Back in those years.... music publishers, Handy Brothers, all publishers and we published.... 12-15-20 pieces of music or more a year. When I went to California selling music, Eddie Green's A Good Man is Hard to Find was the biggest seller at that particular time.

S What time was this, 19...
H I left here in February 1919.

S That is when this piece was published?
H It was published in 1918.

S Where did Eddie Green live at that time, right here in New York?
H Here in New York, yes.

S Did he say anything about this particular song about why he wrote it?
H No. Back then they just wrote songs.... established composer.

S But at this time he wasn't an established composer?
H He was a composer, but he was not one of the foremost composers. That is what I am trying.... When you mention A Good Man is Hard to Find since we published it I have to tell you about that and tell you about music publishing in those years. Then....

S $1.50 or $2.00.
H ....A Good Man is Hard to Find.

S Was this ever used in anything, plays?
H Just a minute. I'm going to give you a little history on music and how it is published and all. I was trying to say at the beginning, we paid $1. 50-$2. 00 a copy for music. Then, you go to Woolworth's and get Eddie Green's A Good Man is Hard to Find, W. C. Handy, 's St. Louie Blues of the.... for 10 cents. Now, you see.... at 10 cents a copy. Now we sold that to them at 4-1/2 or 5 cents a copy. And out of the 4-1/2-5 cents a copy which we selling it at 10 then you can imagine what you are making out of that. Paying a penny a royalty.

S Are you getting royalties from...
H No, we are paying royalties.

S You are paying them?
H We are paying the composer. We paid Eddie Green.

S It is over now?
H It is over now.... at 10 cents a copy.... 4-1/2.... and make enough out of that to pay the.... for publishing it and printing it and pay a penny royalty a copy to the composer. 1-1/2 or 2 cents left for ourselves. You see what I am trying to say. How times have changed. I should go to Woolworth's and they give you an order for 50,000 copies,100,000 copies of music. They put that on the counter and it goes in a very short time.... the art work of the title pages, you have to have the artist come and make the title page. So this was a big thing.

S Did you ever write the liner notes. Did you ever write notes, did you publish any records, just sheet music.
H Handy Brothers and they are still going.

S Who owns it now?
H The family, and I'm living on.... now, my brother, rest his soul in peace

S Where is it located.
H 72nd Street and Broadway.

S Does any of the family run it.
H Flo and Candy. His daughter, Mrs. Catherine Handy Lewis, son.... Owens Handy and grandson.

S Is it still called the Handy Brothers?
H Not called, it is the Handy Brothers Music Company, Inc. There I'll have to set it to you like this. You got my brother, W. C. was more like a father to me than a brother.

S , How much older was he than you.
H 16 years. I never called him Bill in my life. I never called him William in my life, nothing but brother and W. C. I never took the nerve to call him W. C. until after I married. He was a wonderful man. Our mother died when I was 5 years old and my brother...

S So W. C. was your only brother and he came from Florence, Alabama?
H No, we lived in Florence, Alabama. He left the minstrel to come back home when his wife gave birth to their first child, Lucille. Am I going all right.

S I wish I could hear a few words about the Dark Town Strutters Ball. Do you know anything related to that.
H Shelton Brooks wrote that.

S And Shelton Brooks was a black composer.
H Sure. Alberta Hunter can give you a lot of the information.

S She is singing that on a record album. On her recording that is one of the songs she is going to sing.
H She can tell you more about that than I can because she is a singer and she was singing. Dark Town Strutters.... is just another composition.... other than friendship... black composer... concerned about it too much. Concerned about our own palpitations, our own ditches. We have the publishing business. What I was going to say was our father died in 1908 and I stayed a while with my brother in Memphis and I realized that I was going to have to get out on my own.

S You had only one brother. Why were you in Memphis. You lived in Memphis for a while.
H I lived there after my father died in Alabama in 1908 I went to live with my brother in Memphis and I stayed there.

S Was he publishing music then.
H Not then. I stayed with my brother for a couple years and went to St. Louis on my own. Stayed in St. Louis until 1916.
My brother had gone to Chicago to attend a convention of the 50th Anniversary of Freedom and he had written a march, Hail to the Spirit of Freedom" to be played at the convention. From that march, Hail the Spirit of Freedom the trio.... melody. I wish I was a musician I could play it for you. He wrote....

S He wrote a composition.
H From that, which I will explain to you a few minutes from now. My mind rambles and I want to come back to it because it is.... what's that... number.... composition that he composed from his march Hail to the Spirit of Freedom... he wanted to write not something to contrast but there is a sequel to it.

S Who was the person?
H My brother. In 1916 he came to where I was working in St. Louis.

S W. C. Handy came.
H He was on his way back from Chicago from this 50th anniversary of Freedom and asked me if I would come back to Memphis and work with him in his publishing business. I did. Then the publishing business.

S So in Memphis the company was called Pace.
H Originally it was called Pace and Handy Music. He and my brother became partners and stayed partners for a number of years.

S When did they finally get to New York?
H They came to New York around 1918.

S Dark Town Strutters Ball.
H No. We had nothing to do with that. We didn't publish that, another publisher published it.

S So actually, Dark Town Strutters Ball was composed by Shelton Brooks but was published by someone else?
H Yes.

S Why did Mr. Handy write St. Louie Blues.
H That is a hard thing to say. I will tell you like this. Why does he, as a black man, why do you write the blues. I wish I was able to tell you like I would like to. See my brother was an educated musician.

S He even spoke at the University of Michigan, too, didn't he.
H Yes. I'll tell you about that, too. My brother was an educated musician and being a musician he was able to see and hear something that a black man and woman can see which is different from a white man.... He put it down.... That's what we call blues. And we analyze it from a musical standpoint it was different from the white man.... So he gave two of everything.

S The St. Louis Blues.
H No. He gave.... you asked why did he write St. Louis Blues. Now he has written his first blues with Mr. Crump.

S Who was Mr. Crump.
H Mr. Crump was running for mayor of the city of Memphis. That is how come my brother to write Memphis Blues. My brother then was living in Foxdale, Miss. with his family. The other mayoralty candidates of Memphis at the time at.... black bands one.... and the other was.... And so Mr. Crump sent down and had Handy to come up. My brother was not as well known at that time as others. To offset that popularity of the other bands who could play for the other two candidates my brother wrote Mr. Crump the little ditty for his band to play and campaign for.

S Mr. Crump was running for mayor.
H A campaign song.

S A campaign song. All right. Then let me repeat this just for my own clarification. 'Mr. Crump was actually written as a campaign song and Mr. Crump himself was running for mayor of Memphis.
H That is right.... my brother wrote this ditty as he called it at that time. Something to try to offset the popularity of the other two competitors, these other two black bands who were playing concert So brother wrote this to kind of offset their popularity and he named it Mr.Crump. Later it became known as Memphis Blues.

S Yeh, was their any unique reason for writing.
H So I am saying why in a round about way. Why he says he wrote it. Memphis Blues he sold for $100.

S To whom did he sell it?
H Erin C. Bennett who brought it to New York.

S Erin C. Bennett brought the song to New York, T. C Bennett. Did it become more popular then?
H Oh, yes, it became popular. Memphis Blues came to New York and became a big hit.... up the river, the big city, St. Louis which is the largest city than Memphis...., and now saying he wrote that St. Louis Blues in dialect, did you notice that.

S No, I didn't notice that.
H He wrote that in dialect. He did not do that in ridicule but he did it part of educated reason.

S What was that reason.
H That some where down in the next century there will be no negro dialect.

S So he wanted to document this.
H That's it. And when you look at the dialect it feels good.

S Yes, he does write this in dialect. The evening sun go down cuz my baby he done left this town. That is why he wrote in dialect because he wanted to document the way a black singer talked.
H It wasn't ridicule.

S When it first came out did it have his picture on the cover?
H Oh, no, that is immaterial. When you published music then it was who is going to sing it but it was an.... circuit. A circuit was on, vaudeville was a big thing then. Artists Alberta Hunter would get on the Palace Theatre in New York in the Fall.

S What was the name of the theatre.
H Keith Palace.... go to California and back and it would take a year. She put that number in her repertoire and sang it, sing it day and night. During that time we would sell a million copies of the music. Back in those years when a good man is hard to find, St. Louis Blues, it... at the ten cent stores, at Woolworth's, and the music houses.

S You go to Sears Roebuck and put a list of the songs that you published in their catalog.
H And they would list the songs that had become passé or had died out in the cities, and now they were just coming into being in the rural district. Didn't have television. All they had was piano and organ and the bands and the people coming to see you and sing. This was a big difference. Sears Roebuck would list St. Louis Blues, Good Man is Hard to Find, Beale Street Blues, of our publications after they became not dead but died down in the cities.

S If their popularity became lessened. This way then the people in the rural areas could read what was available too. The people all over the country could read what songs were available.
H Would buy and sing and play. Not read, but would buy, send to St. Louis, not to St. Louis but.... Sears Roebuck catalog and look in it and A Good Man is Hard to Find, St. Louis Blues, and they would order the music that they want from Sears and Roebuck.

S Tell me. You mentioned that W. C. Handy had a speech at, gave a speech at the University of Michigan.
H There,... second wife had that made.

S Of W. C. Handy? It is a gorgeous picture.
H ...to have a frame made for it. A lot of the pictures are off the wall.... I am writing a book and Fisk University is publishing it

S Publishing what.
H I am writing a book now and Fisk is publishing it now.

S Who is doing it down there?
H Mr. Holmes. The reason I was trying to tell you is that the wall is void of pictures. So many are down at Fisk. Holmes will be back up here in two weeks.

S Do you get any royalties from W. C. Handy's music now?
H No, I don't.

S Who does, the family?
H The family, The Handy Brothers Music Company.

S Oh, and by that way it comes back, part of it to.
H The Handy Brothers Music Company. My brother in 1916.... Sometime they just give me the.... I was in the second draft. Camp Grant, Ill., out of Chicago, and while in camp I received a great surprise when I received a registered envelope with 17 shares of Handy Music Company stock.

S Where was this you received the stock?
H While I was in Camp Grant.

S Oh, you received 17 shares of Handy Brothers Stock.
H It was.... and Handy.

S From whom did you receive it?
H My brother.

S Oh, okay.
H It was a great surprise. I wrote my brother.... thanking him and telling him that if at any time in the future, he would want the stock back, I am an uneducated man, I only got to 4th grade, but I read.

S You received a letter from your brothers lawyer indicating that the company had been dissolved?
H No,.... I could have said I want $10,000, I want $20,000; but I remember what I said back in Camp Grant.

S If you want the stock back you would give it to him?
H Yes

S So that medallion has the three most important men?
H No, you asked me what was this medallion. I am telling you. The Memphis 150th anniversary, this is black history. When they took a poll, who were the most important men in Memphis history, and when they went through, white and black, DeSoto, Jackson, Handy.

S As an aging person do you feel something slipping away from you.
H Yes, I don't hate age, no. I feel something slipping away from me, yes.

S Because of your age?
H Age and condition which I am living now. When I say conditions I have an ailing wife and...

S You do look thinner.
H I am not a well man, that is the whole thing in a nutshell.

END OF INTERVIEW