J.C. Heard
S = Standifer
H = Heard
<IN PROGRESS>
H ...That's it.
S Knowing full well that that's not the
way it works in real life, in other words, they are two good people. There
are too many good people around. One thing that we tell our students where
I come from, up here in Michigan, that good people are a dime a dozen.
Anne Brown also said, I asked her when she got the role of Bess in Porgy
& Bess. You know, there was she and Etta Moton with George Gershwin.
I said, "Was it good enough then in 1939 or 1935 to be good enough?"
She said, "No, Jim." She's 70, beautiful. 70 years old. She
says, "Not good enough to be good enough. Not even good enough to
be superior. You have to know, you have to be able to use your connections,
and you might even have to do a few things you might not be proud of,
but, you always try to keep your self respect and your integrity."
So, I guess what I'm asking you, you're saying "Hey, look, there
are 2 good people-may the best man win." Well, there's one guy that
said, "Bullshit! That's not the way it works in show business."
H No. Well, I'll let him say that.
S Now, I want you to lay it on the line.
I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but I'm pressuring you because
I know enough about show business to know...
H No. You know what? I'm going to tell you
something as far as I got now. I've never been one to want to carry around
on my shoulders the bad attitude and the dirty reputation that a lot of
guys have carried with them. I don't want that. I don't want that. I always
want to go down as if I was all right, I did what I could, I tried to
help people, I tried to do this and I tried to do that. Not that I was
an asshole or whatever. You know? Oh, that so and so and so and so, well
he's no good. I don't want that kind of label on me after I'm gone, you
know, because of my kids and my grandchildren, or whatever. I want them
to you know with regards to what happens, because to me, hey, if you've
got $10 million you can't take it in the ground if you die next week.
It's going to stay for everybody to fight over. So, I mean, how much steaks
can you eat, how many clothes can you wear at one time? Huh? That's the
way I look at this thing, you know? I don't need all that to be happy.
I don't need no $10 million. You know what I'm talking about? All I want
is just a little and I don't want nobody begrudging me for getting it
because the reputation I made for myself and the road I've come to get
here, the dues I've paid, I think I want it. I think I rate it to the
point to where if somebody is trying to block me that way to stop me,
of course, I'll step all over them. I'll take a truck to run over his
body, you know? Right, if it comes to that.
S Okay. I'm going to name a few people
again and just give me in 3 or 4 words a description of that person in
terms of their musicianship or a good person. For example, I might say
Andy Kirk and you might say, fabulous band leader, lousy musician.
H But he was.
S Well, this is just for example. Forgive
me Andy. Okay? Colon Hawkins.
H Fabulous musician.
S Blues/jazz, Roy Eldridge.
H The same.
S Lester Young.
H The same.
S Dizzy Gillepsie.
H The same.
S What about, in terms of this whole controversy
about to bop or not to bop?
H That's just a type of phrase and stuff
like that. You see, Dizzy is not as stupid and crazy to think that by
giving him that name "Dizzy Gillepsie". Dizzy, that means he's
supposed to be dizzy because of the horn-rimmed glasses he played bee
bop and wore funny hats and all that kind of stuff. He's a smart man.
He's one of the smartest musicians you've got today on the _____. You
know what I'm talking about? Dizzy and I are just like brothers. We've
know each other for 40 years.
S Ella Fitzgerald.
H Great entertainer. Great singer of songs.
Great personality and things like that.
S Lena.
H Oh, what can I say of Lena. I can't say
enough about Lena.
S I'm going to say a couple of things and
I want you to react to this. When I talked to Lena she did one of the
most remarkable things I've ever seen a woman do-this was December 17,
1983. I was in Toledo. I wanted her interview. I had followed her over
the country since 1980. NBC was videotaping an interview. When I got in
there, Sam Snead, her agent, said, "Hey, Jim. Come on in and interview
her." So, NBC said, "Hey, look, we can't have any amateurs around
here." She said "Like hell you can. He's a brother. Jim, stand
anywhere you want to. I'm not getting paid for this anyway." And
then she went on to talk about how she was influenced by the Black activist-damned,
I can't think of his name. He was assassinated in New York.
H Malcom X?
S Yeah. Malcom X. I mean I found out so
much from this woman in 5 minutes that I didn't know about. She is a radical.
One of the most beautiful ones I've ever seen.
H Oh, yeah.
S Now. The more I have learned about her,
and she sent me a lot of different things about her, I think that Lena
probably is maybe the kind of a tough person that I described earlier
because she said, for example, that when she was in show business in Hollywood
she had to be tough. For one thing because she was Black but she looked
like she was White and secondly, she felt that she and one of her closest
friends, I think Jennifer Jones or Ava Gardner, knew that they were getting
screwed and you don't get screwed unless you're going to fight back like
you say.
H That's right.
S All right. Anyway, do you think that
an Ella Fitzgerald or a Sarah Vaughn could function in the same way that
I've described Lena functioning acting?
H No.
S Why?
H They're different.
S And why?
H Just different. In the first place...
END OF INTERVIEW
<There was a 5-minute interview.>