Edith Wilson

February 20, 1981

S = Standifer
W = Edith Wilson

<Tape in progress at beginning >

S Goodall. How do you spell that last name?
W Goodall.

S Okay. I had seen it written in other places and they spelled it God...
W Well, that isn't.

S So you were born in Louisville, Kentucky.
W Yeah.

S I see. When were you born. What is the date of your birth?
W September 2nd.

S September 2nd. Will you tell me also the year?
W It was, well, I'm always telling the story about it. ...to tell the truth.

S It's not a very polite question, but I would just like...
W Just the same, I've been here since 1898.

S 1898?
W yes.

S Well, you're a very charming person to be 81, almost 82 years old, right?
W Yes.

S And what is your birth date again, what month?
W September the 2nd.

S Oh, so you've just had a birthday.
W Yeah.

S Happy Birthday. Very much so. Well, let me ask you some other things. When you were a girl in Louisville, did you do any singing in the church at all?
W Yes, to a certain extent. But they said that I started to singing when I was between 2 and 4 years old, and I used to go and sit on those steps with a fellow that I knew, him and his brother were musicians and entertainers, and I used to go sit on the steps with his sister and listen to the songs that they were singing and all, and that's the way I learned my first song.

S Oh. Can you remember who you would listen to? Were there any favorite singers in those days?
W Yeah. Jimmy and his brother-oh, what's his name, now-anyhow, there was two brothers and one sister there.

S And they would sing and you'd listen to them?
W Yeah.

S Were there any recording artists when you were a young girl that you liked to listen to?
W Yeah. I listened to the sister of these boys and she was singing that song about "What Did You Do, America? After You America. You got excited and you started something, Nations jumping all around."
Laughter

S I see. Was she a Black woman?
W Yeah.

S Oh, I see. And at that time how old were you?
W Well, at that time, I guess I was about 10 years old or something like that.

S And so you were singing at 10 years old?
W Yeah.

S Could you sing that little piece again for me? That was very interesting. Go ahead.
W "What did you do, America, They're after you, America. You got excited and you started something, nations jumping all around. You've got a lot to answer for, I lay the blame right at your door." That just about finishes it.

S I see. How many years ago were, you were 10 years old, did you do any dancing when you were a little girl, also?
W Oh, yes, I danced some things that used to be out there and dancing, and these boys, I stayed working along with them until they were gone and went to New York.

S So you left Louisville, Kentucky as a young girl and then went to New York. How old were you when you got to New York?
W I think I must have been about 15.

S Oh, that was very young.
W Oh, it was young.

S Were you with your parents at the time or were you alone?
W No, I was with my parents, but I would go and sing-what happened is that I used to slip out of the bed at night and go out to where Jimmy and these boys were living and where they were singing and I'd go down and sing with them, too.

S I see.
W I was a big old girl for my age, you know.

S So you could pass for being much older, huh?
W I was 13. Then my mother said, "well, I'm going to start to going down with you and bring you back home. You're getting too old to be out in the street at night by yourself." So, she'd walk me home at nights.

S did you have any other sisters and brothers?
W Yeah. I had 3 brothers, 2 died early, and one of them was living a good long time.

S Did you have any sisters?
W I had sisters by my father.

S So they were half sisters, maybe.
W Half sisters. Yeah.

S I see. Are they still living?
W Two of them are.

S I see. Who is in Niles, Michigan?
W that's where one of my sisters lives, and the other one is something in the hospital, and then Grace Harrison, she was married to man that was pretty well off and they bought a house and moved up there to Michigan.

S I see. What was your father's name?
W Hundley Goodall.

S Hundley Goodall. And your mother's name?
W Susie Goodall.

S Susie Goodall, and what was her maiden name?
W Jones.

S Jones? I see. Now, I understand somewhere that your grandfather was somehow related to one of our Presidents or Vice Presidents.
W Yes. Well, that comes from

S Great Grandfather.
W Yeah. That's my great grandfather, and he -well, it's a long story about him, so really and truly my grandmother was the Eliza of Uncle Tom's Cabin that they write about.

S Was she the what of Uncle Tom's Cabin? The model for that?
W She was the woman who was in Uncle Tom's Cabin, Eliza.

S Oh, Eliza.
W Yeah.

S So that was the woman to whom they're referring to.
W Yeah.

S Oh, I see.
W You see, she worked for these people from down in Louisville. They had 3 daughters and they were in show business and she was working for them.

S I see.
W So she's the one that decided that she had a met a man she wanted to marry and they wanted to go into Canada to get married. And they started out to Canada and the girls were waiting on this woman, and that's what they did until the Emancipation. Of course, when they come to Louisville, they went up to Cincinnati to go for when Canada could get married, and when they got up there to the place where they had to step off to go across the Ohio River, because it was frozen over, and they had to go sliding across there to get married.

S And this was your grandparents?
W He was my father's grandfather.

S I see, and he was the one that's related to one of the Vice Presidents of the United States.
W Yes. He was.

S Because I had read that somewhere about one of the ...
W Breckinridge is the name.

S Breckinridge?
W Yeah.

S I see. Let me ask you some other quick questions. Now, when you went to New York, you were about 15 years old and you stayed there for a while and performed. What club did you perform in _______ while you were in New York?
W When I first took a job in New York was with - now let's see, I can't think of their names now but they were from Louisville. They were working in New York.

S But you were 15 years old?
W Yeah.

S Club Alabam, that wasn't in New York, was it?
W Yeah, that was in New York.

S Well, you worked at Club Alabam.
W Yeah.

S And in the 20s, I believe. 1925, 26...
W Yeah, well it was before I had gotten that far up in the 20s I had to start to work in the _____ ____ with Hot Chocolates.

S Now, Hot Chocolates, was that written by Cecil and Blake?
W No. I believe it was written by Fats Waller and somebody else.

S All right. Now, Chocolate Bambies, that was another show you performed in, wasn't it?
W No. I didn't perform in chocolate Bambies. I worked in Hot Chocolates.

S Hot Chocolates? All right. What other shows?
W And some other show and I'm trying to think of the name of it. Oh, where Fats Waller...

S Louis Armstrong,
W ...and Louis Armstrong and me were known as the Thousand Pounds of Harmony.

S Right.
W And then, I went on

S That was at Club Alabam, wasn't it?
W Yes, Club Alabam. And so around that time, that went out and I went with somebody to Europe.

S I see. Now at the Club Alabama I understand there was an orchestra there that was-the arrangements were made by Fletcher Henderson. Do you remember Fletcher Henderson very well?
W Oh, yes, I worked on the trio was with Fletcher.

S Did he arrange songs for you?
W Yeah, at that time.

S Can you remember any that he might have arranged? The name of some? Some blues songs?
W Something he made? Fletcher? Let's see. I'll have to catch that going on, because I can't think of any right now.

S Okay. Now, in 1924, I remember reading that Louis Armstrong came to Club Alabam and joined the group at that time?
W that's right.

S But this wasn't that Club Alabam orchestra, was it?
W No, it wasn't the Club Alabam orchestra at that time.

S Was it a smaller band?
W It was a smaller band.

S Now, did Coleman Hawkins play with that band at that time?
W Coleman Hawkins played with something at that time. I know that. But I don't know the name of the people.

S I've read in this book by Dereksterd Baxter called Maw Rainey and the classic blues singers. It said that Edith Wilson, the third important member of a trio of primary women singers, the other two women were Mamie Smith and Lucille Smith. And it was said that you performed in Hot Chocolates,right? And that you performed with Louis Armstrong and Fats Waller and you were being a thousand pounds of brownie, and also that some of your favorite songs were "Frankie" and "Old Time Blues", "Rules and Regulations Sign". What does that sound like?
W Well,

S do you remember the words to that, "Blues and Regulations Sign _____ ___"?
W I don't know.

S You can't remember the other words now?
W No, not off-hand.

S Can you remember "He May be Your Man, But he Comes to See Me Sometimes?"
W That's one of my best songs now.

S Oh, really?
W Yeah.

S Can you sing a few verses of that? A verse or two? Just a little bit.
W Oh, Miss Lennie Lee from Tennessee, what's known to be quite rough, many times, anywhere, she would always strut her stuff. Now say it is snow, she had a beau, she loved you night and day. Until maybe, she'll conceal me, stole her car away. ____ _____, but many on the side, then I heard her say, he may be me your man, but he comes to see me some times.

S that's beautiful.
W And when he's with you, he's always got me on his mind. I'm not a vampire, that is true, but it would indeed be a pleasure if I could entice your boy for me. I have a winning smile, wicked walk, in fact I have the kind of _____ ____ see me talk. No need to crying, it's unnecessary to wail and moan. I'm infatuated with your guy, and I'd like to have him for my own, my very own. Now, I don't mean to be so bold, but I'm standing up here, honey, and I'm going to get you told that he may be your man, but he's visits me occasionally.

S laughs. That is wonderful.
W .... I wrote it in myself ....

S Now, I hear that Lucile Hagerman sang that sometimes, didn't she?
W Yes, nearly all of them would grab at those songs they knew were hitting.

S Right.
W Yeah, that's the whole thing over there, ______.

S I see. Now, as a trio when you sang as a trio, would you sing a song like that together? Or would you sing each one of you as a solo?
W yeah, solo.

S And then someone in the background?
W Yeah, and in the background.

S I see. So, let's see, the Dunn Band. Did you sing with them.
W Johnny Dunn.

S Yeah, Johnny Dunn is it?
W Yeah. Johnny Dunn.

S Can you tell me anything about that band at all? Who were some of the performers in the Dunn band?
W Well, now, let's see. There was, oh, I don't know, I'd have to try to....

S Was Don Redman with them?
W He might have been for a while, but he wasn't with them all the time. And is there anybody else you can name? Let's see, Johnny Dunn's band, I can't think...

S Did you perform in the Plantation Review?
W Yeah.

S Now, what was that about?
W That was at the Cotton Club.

S Oh, in New York also.
W Yeah. In New York.

S What part did you play in that?
W Oh, just Edith Wilson.

S Edith Wilson? Do you remember some songs you sang in the Plantation Review
W In the Plantation, let me think.

S Can you describe -what was the Plantation Review like? In other words, they were all Black performers?
W Yeah.

S And how would it start? Let's pretend, for example, that we are back in the Cotton Club and I cam this afternoon to a matinee of the Plantation Review, what would be the first thing I would probably see?
W Well, first

S Would the band play first?
W First there would be the band and then the next thing would be Cora Lorand(?) who was the dancer. And she did dances, you know, and I think that would be about the next thing. Cora Lorand, and somebody else-well, I was in the Cotton Club.

S When you came on would you come on with the other 2 ladies or would you come on by yourself in the Review?
W I would come on with the 3 ladies first and then later on I would do the specialty by myself.

S I see. Were the gowns very gorgeous that you would wear?
W A lot of them were very pretty because they had a lot of people trying to be the one to make them, so they made nice gowns.

S Did you ever see or work with or do any work with Catherine Dunham?
W No. I didn't _____ they were putting on a show and they'd have me in the show, you know.

S You weren't in Bomboola, were you? Did you see that?
W Yeah.

S Was it a very interesting show as a dancer for you?
W Yeah, there were several nice dances in there.

S Can you remember any of the names of them?
W Oh,

S Bubbles, maybe?
W Oh, yes. Bubbles. Bubbles was from Louisville you know.

S Oh, he was? He's still living, isn't he?
W Yes. And when I came along as a little girl, he was big enough that they used to tease me and pull my hair and said, "Oh, your mother plaits your hair so tight that it would squeeze snot out your nose."

S Would you repeat that again?
W He said, "Tell your mother to stop plaiting your hair so tight. It's plaited so tight it squeezes the snot out your nose."

S And Bubbles would say that?
W Bubbles and Mrs. Pardin, they used to tease me.

S I see. How old is bubbles now? He's about in his 80s?
W Bubbles is around 90s.

S Around 90s?
W I mean, he must be past the 80s.

S Was his first name John?
W John.

S John Bubbles.
W Yeah. And his father died. Buck. It used to be Buck and Bubbles.

S Oh, I see. Was Bubbles at the Broadway Show? What's the name of that?
W Black Broadway.

S Black Broadway? Was he there?
W Yeah.

S Was he able to perform and
W Yes, they rolled him around in the chair and he talked about his song sitting in the chair.

S Right. Honey Cloves was there.
W Oh, Honey was there, too.

S Now how old is Honey?
W Honey is old enough to know better.

S laughs
W Honey said sit down and he couldn't up. He had a little stroke while he was there.

S Oh, he did?
W Yeah.

S Oh, I see. Well I have to see him. What other famous names were there on Black Broadway that I don't remember? I'll get the cart. So the other people on the Black Broadway ticket were Adelaide Hall, John Bubbles, who were some of the others?
W Nell Carter.

S Nell Carter.
W Honey Cloves.

S Oh, definitely Honey Cloves. John Bubbles of course.
W Gregory Hines.

S Who?
W Gregory Hines.

S Gregory Hines. What does he know? Is he a dancer or a singer?
W Yeah. He's a dancer.

S He's a dancer. I see.
W Bobby Short.

S Now Bobby Short, is he a dancer or a singer?
W Singer.

S A singer? Did he ______ on that.
W he does both.

S Oh, he dances and sings.
W Yeah. Elizabeth Welch.

S Mmmm. Where does Elizabeth Welch live?
W She lives in Europe.

S In Europe? And what does she do, fly from Europe to do this?
W Yeah. She sings well.

S I see. Who put on Black Broadway? Turn that around so we can see that on the camera. Can you turn it around just a bit more? Well, we can't quite get it. All right, now we have it. That was put on by George Wines at Town Hall at 123rd West 43rd Street in New York. And it only for 3 weeks, right?
W Yeah.

S Do you feel that-did they pay you well for this performance?
W Well...

S According to what you think was right for this time and day?
W Well, each one of us were paid according to what you had been having before. If I could get $50 for a week, well that's what they gave me, you know?

S Oh, for a whole week, though?
W yeah, well, even more, but I'm just saying, you know. Some people got $300 a week. I got $500, I think it was. Something like that.

S Plus your expenses though.
W Yeah.

S they paid your hotel and travel and all that, didn't they?
W Yeah. So, you had-not only that but they furnished you a room in a hotel and paid for that.

S Your food and all that. You were there for 3 weeks for this show. Did you see a lot of old friends in theatre that you saw when you were?
W Yeah, well all those people on that, you know.

S You knew most of them, huh?
W Yeah. Then Dick Hines who played the piano, and Frank Holmes(?) he played the piano.

S Was Lil Brother there?
W Brother?

S Yeah.
W No.

S He wasn't performing there. Now you're doing Coleman Hawkins.
W Yeah. And, of course, he never did get out of what he was doing in the band.

S What? He was an alto sax?
W Yeah. He played very well and everybody liked him.

S Now, was this at Roseland? Do you remember the club
W Roseland, he was not in the show in Roseland. He wasn't in the show, you know, the show that we were all in.

S the Black Broadway.
W Black Broadway. He _____ _____.

S Right. Now is Roseland the name of a show or the name of a club?
W The name of the club.

S I see. And Hawkins, Coleman Hawkins, played at this club in the band some times, right?
W Yeah.

S And Club Alabam was also the name of a club, right?
W Yeah. Duke used to play there.

S Duke Ellington?
W Right.

S Now, name some of the people that you performed with. Duke Ellington, Coleman Hawkins, Louis Armstrong, can you name some others?
W Fats Waller.

S Fats Waller, right.
W Fats Waller, Louis Armstrong and I played a trip together and they advertised us as a thousand pounds of _______.

S Let me ask you another question. Someone told me that Louis Armstrong could really
W Play?

S Well, no, he could really play, but he could also sing in such a way that he could make fun of lyrics.
W Oh, yeah. He could do that.

S You know, one song like "All of Me" that he would take that All of Me song and sometimes speak in a fake British accent because the lyrics were so corny.
W Yeah, I can imagine him doing that. Of course, I don't know if he did it while I was there, but I heard that he was doing things like that.

S Did you ever take some lyrics and ...
W Bounce them around?

S ...bounce them around?
W Yes.

S Can you think of an example like that you can share with us on this tape?
W Oh, well. Let's see now.

S You used to get songs from Danny Wilson, your first husband?
W Yeah. And the last ones

S Even after he's dead?
W After he's dead.

S Oh, he sort of sent you a message from the grave?
W Yeah.

S And you'd write them down in the form of a song.
W Yeah. He would sing them to me and he'd say, "Learn that." I dreamed that, you know.

S And this would be the song. Well, did you write these down so that you could remember them?
W I wrote 2 or 3 of them down. Now, one I wrote down was "There was a time so I've been told, you were done with fun, when you grow old."

S is that all you can remember of that?
W No, I remember more, but I'm going to let _____.

S Okay. Go ahead.
W "There was a time, so I been told, you was done with fun when you grow old. All that talk is now passé, cause ole folks have a ball today. There have music and they have dancing, wining and dining and romancing, they always moving to keep from twiddling their thumbs. They play golf and they fly planes, never have any aches or pains, just keep on moving to keep from twiddling their thumbs. Now grandma and grandpa used to bunny hug. Now grandpa is a real cool cat, and grandma sure can cut a rug. Grandma goes to church on Sunday, grandpa gets in a racetrack Monday. They always moving to keep from twiddling their thumbs."

S That's one of them that Danny wrote from your first husband and gave it to you and you wrote it down. And you feel like he sent these to you from the grave?
W Yeah.

S I see.
W Listen here. It was just about as deep as this where I could see him and he played the piano. He was a very good pianist. So he said, "Edith Mae, I've got a song for you." Just as plain as you could see it.

S And this is one of them?
W Yeah.

S What did you name that?
W Keep from Twiddling Your Thumbs.

S I like that. Would you sing that again for me, Mrs. Wilson? I'm going to ask you to do it again for me. Would you?
W Yeah.

S All right.
W "There was a time, so I been told, you was done with fun when you grow old. All that talk is now passé, cause ole folks have a ball today. There have music and they have dancing, wining and dining and romancing, they always moving to keep from twiddling their thumbs. They play golf and they fly planes, never have any aches or pains, just keep on moving to keep from twiddling their thumbs. Now grandma and grandpa used to bunny hug. Now grandpa is a real cool cat, and grandma sure can cut a rug. Grandma goes to church on Sunday, grandpa gets in a racetrack Monday. They always moving to keep from twiddling their thumbs."

S Have you published that?
W Not yet.

S You should publish that.
W I'm going to. They've got the place where they got the records.

S Have you done that with Lil Brother playing?
W No. Brother, it's hard to get him to play something. _____ _____.

S Oh, really? Why?
W Just the thing. I don't know why some people are. _____ ______ long piece. So, I wrote that one and I write a lot of things, you know, like that, when I have something. I dream it all the time.

S Oh, I see.
W the _____ songs.

S And that brings it right out. Do you know, or have you read or did you hear a great deal at all about Maw Rainy?
W Yes.

S They say she was the first Black female vocalist who performed classic blues to the accompany of jazz.
W Yeah, that's what they say, but at that time, I had to make just straight songs, you know. Well, I was singing straight songs more than anybody else to some extent, because he would teach me songs and teach me songs in my sleep and when I'd wake up, I'd get up and sing.

S And sing this.
W And then sometimes I would forget about them for a long time, because this one time to run through them right now, at the time I said 2 songs, I've got 2 songs, but I can't remember both of them now.

S Okay. Well, thank you. This is the end of Video Tape #1, Mrs. Wilson. We're going to start this tape but before we do, however, I would like to show that that picture there is of your current husband whose name is also Wilson, right, and you. And we're going to go on to a second tape. End of Video Tape #1.
W hen you were a little girl, did people like having you to sing blues? Did they think that was the devil's music? Now, since you're a woman? How do you feel about that?
W No. I think that they wanted me to sing mixed up songs.

S What are mixed up songs?
W Well, I mean,

S A variety of songs?
W Yeah. "Well about that so and so you sang over to what's his name's house?" Then somebody told somebody else and they'd say, it's just a song. So I had a lot of crossings like that before.

S I see.
W Now, my nieces wanted me to sing so and so and so and so, but they would sing things like that.

S So they want you to sing a lot of different songs. I mean many different kinds of songs.
W Different kinds of songs.

S When you were a little girl did you ever have any racial problems that - were Blacks treated very well when you were a little girl in Louisville?
W I didn't know that there was any difference.

S They didn't treat you any different from any of the Whites, rights?
W I wasn't around them, because my mother kept me at home, you know, and my aunts and all of our relatives had big powerful amount of relatives, you know. So, I guess that scared them off.

S Well, this is a very interesting thing. I read about the ______ rules and regulations. I'd like to read it.
W By Raisin Jim?

S Right. It says, "Rules and regulations" signed Raisin Jim, she overcomes the difficulties of the studio conditions and comes roaring through the years. In other words, according to this writer, in the studios you had very bad kind of conditions in the studios when you were recording. This is one of the songs that it is said that you liked very much and that this song was very interesting because it told the story of a tough small-town hustler, a promoter of dances who enforced good conduct by means of this particular "Rules and Regulations".
W Yeah.

S And that the composition was written by Perry Bradford.
W Perry Bradford, yeah.

S Who is Perry Bradford?
W He was my road manager for the show. He put on shows and I worked with him and he's the one who put me on to that first song that I sang on the ...

S The first one tonight?
W Yeah.

S He heard about it and said, "Hey, look, why don't you sing this song?"
W Yeah. We used to live in this house for a while, but he used to write songs for a lot of artists, you know, and he would have some songs... I think you called them a while ago.

S Oh, when I was reading Ma Franky and some of the others?
W Yeah. Well, the things that he had written and promoted for me.

S Did you ever do any performing with Ubie Blake?
W Oh, yes.

S Did he play for you while you sang?
W Yeah.

S Did you ever perform in any of his shows like "Shuffle Along" or "_____ the Dandies" or any of the others that he did?
W The only songs I worked in with him was-it's funny to me because he said to the people, "I'm looking forward to having Mrs. Wilson be here tonight so I want ya'll to respect her." When he made the speech they were slightly mad at him because he had taken up too much time to introduce me. So, that night that they had this affair for me, they had a great big round table, you know, and the girls all sat at the table-I think it was 12-and I was the 13th on.

S Oh, I see.
W So, okay, we were all sitting around the table and when it come to me, people were saying, you know, I asked Mrs. Wilson ____ ____, you know and I would sing so and so with Ubie Black's they announced the things as they went along. And I always started to laughing because when Ubie came in, I had just drank some wine or something, anyhow I drank, you know, and so there was no bottle or glass or anything in the front of me. So he comes in and looks over at me and he says, "Mrs. Wilson, what have you done that you wouldn't drink."

S He thought you were crazy, huh?
W Well, we always laughed about that for ever so long.

S Was Marion there? His wife, Marion Blake?
W Yeah, Marion was there, too.

S Did you ever see Marion when she performed as a pony on Broadway in the chorus lines?
W Yeah.

S Did you ever see her when you were a young girl?
W Yeah. Yeah. I've seen her.

S She was quite a performer herself I understand.
W She was quite a dancer.

S Oh. And I heard she was a hot kicker.
W Yeah.

S Were you a pretty hot kicker or you were mostly a tap dancer? Did you tap?
W A little bit. Not much.

S But mostly a singer. Now, as a blues singer, can you think of any other clubs here in Chicago that you sang?
W I played at?

S Yeah. Right.
W Oh, the Plantation Review, oh, there have been several songs.

S The Plantation Review was here in Chicago?
W Yeah.

S Oh, I didn't realize that.
W There was one here. Let's see, I haven't been doing anything much. There's a thing before this that they had this affair, but they invited.

S to come and perform at?
W Yeah. And, that's a big thing downtown here in the park.

S Oh, yes. Right. When you'd go to that did Brother accompany you?
W Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Honey, Brother just called up here this morning to tell Jellie - we call my husband Jellie - to tell Jellie that I had-I forget what - Jellie didn't never tell me all what it was about, but anyhow, there's something that me and him got to do pretty soon.

S To go out of town? Oh, I know one of the songs-"Rhapsody in Black"-He might have performed in that.
W Yeah.

S Right?
W Yeah.

S And of course Hot Chocolate was with Louis Armstrong and Fats Waller when the Plantation Review was here. Did you ever perform in the Black Birds?
W Blackbirds.

S Yeah, you were the star of Blackbirds, weren't you?
W No. Ross Smith was in Blackbirds, and then I worked in Blackbirds. I was one of the main singers at Ross' funeral.

S Oh, really.
W And I turned loose-I forget, I did Two dozen Blackbirds.

S At that funeral?
W At that funeral.

S She was the star of Blackbirds, wasn't she?
W Yeah.

S And who was Blackbirds written by? Was that written by Nobely Cecille?
W Yeah.

S Or Ubie Blake?
W Ubie and Cecille.

S Wrote that.
W Yeah. And____, because I dressed with her, you know, we were real friends. I dressed with her and I was the honorary pallbearer.

S For the funeral?
W Yeah. For her funeral.

S Oh, I see.
W And, of course, I ________. When she started to go to the funeral parlor to bury her, why there were blackbirds flying in the air over her.

S Did you ever know Ella Fitzgerald?
W Yeah.

S Have you ever heard her sing?
W Yeah.

S What do you think about Ella's voice?
W Well, she has-I think she has a very good voice. Very good voice. But there are so many of them in-between that I have worked with, you know.

S Did you ever work with Clara Smith? Any of the Smiths?
W Oh, Clara Smith-no, I really never worked with her.

S Mamie Smith you worked with, of course.
W Mamie?

S yeah.
W Yes.

S Were they related at all?
W I don't know whether they were related at all, but I think that they were. I think if they hadn't been, there would have been a whole lot of argument there, you know. To put out of work because, you know, they had the same name.

S Have you ever worked with Sippie Wallace?
W Oh, yeah, I worked with Sippie since I've been working with Brother.

S Did you record any records with Sippie?
W No. No, not any deliberate records. Unless part of something that we were doing on stage.

S Were you at the 1958 Newport Jazz Festival?
W Yeah.

S With Mahalia Jackson and all of them?
W Yeah, but I wasn't there until the last part of it mostly.

S Are you on that record? Did they catch you on that record that you have? I'll get it for you.
W Yeah.

S This is the one. I was going to see if ...
W I'm on one of those.

S You have one of those records there?
W Yeah. I'm on one of them.

S Sing it.
W Mahalia Jackson.

S Mahalia Jackson, right? Sing it. Let me see, maybe I can find which one you're singing. Of course, Mahalia Jackson studied with Thomas Dorsey here. Now, the picture you're looking at down there is a picture of the Hot Chocolate Music Review.
W That's right.

S Taken at Atlantic City, New Jersey. Could you put your finger on your picture there? Which one is you? That one right there. I see.
W Is that me?

S Yes. That's you with the hat on there. Are there any other big famous notables there?
W Yeah. There's a whole lot of them.

S Is Ubie on there?
W I don't think so.

S Your first husband, Danny Wilson, was a composer and pianist, right?
W Yeah.

S Now, you've married again and this current husband is also named Wilson, right?
W Yeah.

S But he works at the steel mills.
W Yeah. He did. He just quit. Retired.

S Oh, retired?
W yeah.

S Now tell me something, you have several awards. One of them is from Colonel Sanders you say?
W Yeah.

S What is it, Colonel Sander's Chicken. When did that happen, 1964?
W Yeah. Well I worked for them for Quaker Oats Company. That's for this. You see, I worked 18 years for them.

S What did you do?
W Advertised for Aunt Jemima Pancakes.

S What kind of work did you do? Did you take pictures or did you go to the stores?
W I sang songs.

S But were you dressed as Aunt Jemima? You used to work for Quaker Oats.
W Yeah.

S And with Quaker Oats you did commercials on Aunt Jemima.
W Aunt Jemima Pancakes.

S And this is one of the pictures.
W Pictures, yeah, where we had an affair with pancakes.

S I see. And so what you in essence did was dress up like Aunt Jemima in a way?
W Yeah. I wore-the whole time I did it, I dressed for 18 years in the Aunt Jemima dress.

S Was that on Television?
W Yeah, part of the time.

S And supermarkets and places like that.
W yeah.

S I see. Did the Blacks criticize you then for doing that?
W Oh, some of them did and some didn't.

S You were making some money though weren't you?
W That's right.

S And if you need the money...
W I know where I could get it.

S Right. What about the Colonel Sanders? You were also awarded given a Colonel Sanders Award, I believe. No, it wasn't Colonel Sanders, it was Kentucky...
W I was made a Kentucky _____

S Yeah, in 1964, I read where you were made a Kentucky Colonel.
W There you are.

S And you were the first Black artist to receive the honor.
W Yeah. That's why I'm going to do the _______, you know. It's just certainly worthwhile.

S Also, it says you did impersonations of Kingfish's mother-in-law named Landy. Do you remember doing that? Doing impersonations of Kingfish's mother-in-law?
W Yeah. I don't remember.

S What kind of...
W I don't remember doing it.

S You don't remember doing that. So you did an awful lot of different kinds of things, I guess.
W Yeah.

S And you traveled in Europe?
W I traveled all over. Yeah, I traveled in Europe, but it wasn't _____ ____.

S At that time, right, as a blues singer.
W As a blues singer.

S Would you like to be known as a blues singer? A dancer? How do you want people to remember you?
W I rather be known as a singer. Just a singer.

S As a singer. And if there's a favorite thing that you did as you were getting older, can you think of the best song that you feel was your best? What do you like the most of all the songs that you remember singing?
W I have 2 or 3, but I have one I like called Love in His Eyes. Now, I like that one. "Will I ever find the boy on my mind, the one who is my ideal. Maybe he's a dream and yet he might be just around the corner waiting for me. Will I recognize the light in his eyes that no other eyes can feel, or will I pass him by and never even know that he is my ideal." That's the tune that I like.

S That's one of your favorites, huh?
W Yeah.

S All right, let me ask you another question. Now that you're getting older, do you feel that-what are the things that you hate about being old? Is there anything that you don't like about being older now as a singer as when you were younger?
W No. I'm just thankful every time that I'm still able to get up and sing. Now, that's the truth.

S Are you doing things as good now as you did when you were younger?
W Yeah. Everybody is shocked. I mean all these people in these clubs and things say, "My God, is she still working?"
Laughter

S That's the night when they see you come through, huh?
W Yeah. And then they call me, just like George ______, he was looking for me and the people out of his office are looking for me and everything, they're all been helping me to keep on my feet and now have to get _____. Telling you right now that last night I fell out of the bed.

S Last night?
W Yeah, last night.

S I hope you didn't break anything, did you?
W Only I think I hurt my tongue(thumb) up there somewhere, but I'm still working. But anyhow it just shows you that I ain't giving up yet so easy.

S When you were younger, did you have an agent? Someone who managed your...
W Perry Bradford got most of it for me.

S Did he treat you well? Did he make money for you?
W Yes. He got jobs for me, you know, and would call Danny Wilson and would tell him that he had a job for your wife, you know.

S Did you make very much money as a blues singer?
W No. I made a decent salary, you know, it was different from what the other people were making, but it wasn't a whole lot of money.

S Did you make enough to make a living?
W Yeah. Yes. The least I would make would be $100 and sometimes it would only be $50.

S That for one performance? Or a week?
W One performance.

S One performance? That's good. Did you have to do a lot of one-night stands? You know, singing one night in Chicago and one night in Detroit?
W It wasn't often. It wasn't often, because I've done mostly all the theaters and things like that, but I got --- well, just like here not too long ago I went to places and all I got was $75.00.

S It can vary.
W That's about the smallest I got.

S Now, in your older age, are you able to live on income that you made when you were younger?
W Yes, to a certain extent, because I don't require too much now to say that I have to play in something else big. You know? This house is like a regular ______. I don't have to get out of line. I just let her stay until I get the money and then I'll pay so much down.

S But you own this house, though.
W I own this house, yeah. And I own my house up in Niles.

S So you've got two houses.
W I have two houses and when I go up there, I got the whole back of my lot that I rent to a fellow, and takes care of all my bills.

S That's good. So you're comfortable in your old age, then.
W Comfortable, yes. And then I have a fellow who stays here, rooms here with me and he got a dog downstairs in the basement and he pays me a little more for the dog. And I have a cat upstairs.

S You've got it all together. That's great.
W You ____ me when I clipped your tail, I hit your tail I did. I wasn't mad. I just said I hit your tail that's all. That's all it was. Ain't nobody mad. Go see what he wants.

S In Chicago, have they honored you in the City of Chicago? Have they honored you with commemorations or with awards?
W Yeah. I had something here not long ago they sent me.

S Well, I think that we've gotten a share from you, Mrs. Wilson. I'm thankful that you permitted me to come to your house. What I'd like to do now is to go and take a few more still pictures and it was delightful being here. Thank you very much.
W You're welcome.

END OF INTERVIEW