Article 62982 of comp.sys.apple2: Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Path: caen!uwm.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!fmlin From: fmlin@netcom.com (Frank M. Lin) Subject: //gs accelerator mini-FAQ (was: Fastest TWGS and ZIP GS) Message-ID: Organization: EMG References: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1993 22:57:45 GMT Lines: 704 >Hello IIGSers :-) > >What is currently the fastest speed you can reach with a TWGS >or ZIP GS (in MHz).... > >Can you state any sources for fast 65SC816 ? I can remember a article >in A2-Central which was about $99 sample chips directly from WDM ... > >From which speed have I to higher the 5V Vcc Voltage ? I can also rember >that the WDM samples have printout of MHz/Vcc ... > >When have I to use faster GALs (TWGS) ? > >Any benchmarks comparing fast TWGSs with ZIPs ? All these questions have answers in the mini-FAQ below... -- mini-FAQ begins -- I'm still busy with school, and haven't had time to sort out newer Zip informations at the end of the FAQ... Mini-FAQ ( frequently asked questions ) for upgrading TransWarp GS or Zip GS. Last updated: 8-2-93 :::::::::: disclaimer Feel free to distribute this anywhere you think it might be of help. I make no gurantee about any of the information provided below. If you choose to do any part of the upgrade, you are taking the rist. I will not responsible for anything. Le me know if any information is incorrect and/or misleading. you can reach me at: Compuserve, GEnie, America Online, ProLine with Internet feed, METAL/FV with Internet feed, Internet: fmlin@netcom.com OggNet: capsule, user #6 @ House of Games :::::::::: table of contents Search for next topic by scanning for ~~, or ~~. 1. Where can I buy the 32k cache for Transwarp GS? 2. Should I buy the Sanyo chips? Or WDC ones? 3. Where can I buy the high-speed 65816? 4. What GALs version do I need for my TWGS? 5. Where can I buy the GALs? 6. Where can I buy crystal oscillators? 7. What speed of static cache RAMs do I need? 8. Where can I buy the SRAMs? 9. Do I really need to increase the voltage? 10. How do I increase the voltage? 11. Where can I buy the heavy duty power supply? 12. Is it true that Zip can only go about 12.5 mHz? 13. Where can I get replacement 7400 for my Zip? 14. What kind of performance increase can one expect? :::::::::: common questions & answers ~~1. Where can I buy the 32k cache for Transwarp GS? LRO Computer Sales (800) ASK-4LRO TMS Peripherals does not carry any AE stuff. It costs about $80. You can also buy it from AE, but prepare to pay retail. It requires you to cut two little traces at the back of TWGS. Cut it _lightly_, it's fairly easy to cut too deep. So just take it easy. ~~2. Should I buy the Sanyo chips? Or WDC ones? Sanyo re-engineered the 816, but WDC sells them. ~~3. Where can I buy the high-speed 65816? The Western Design Center, Inc. 2166 East Brown Road Mesa, Arizona 85213 (602) 962-4545 voice (602) 835-6442 fax I'm told they don't require you to get a copy of the article anymore. If they still have it, I still recommend you to read it through carefully. It provided me useful informations. price: should be $95 each. NAUG ( National AppleWorks Users Group ) members should be able to buy at $71.25 each. If you're a NAUG member, be sure to ask if they still honor it. ~~4. What GALs version do I need for my TWGS? Basically, you have to have the following GALs to go over 10 mHz: 1A, 2B, 3E, 4B, 5A, 6A, 7A, 8B All TWGS should have the A GALs. So you need: 2B - DMA fix 3E - for above 10 mHz operation 4B - dunno 8B - dunno 2B DMA fix was available for free. You need to call AE's 900 number and ask for it. You might need to pay shipping. Couple of people say it's no longer free. But it's worth asking though. Hint: be persistent! ~~5. Where can I buy the GALs? You can order the GALs only though AE's technical support line. AE Technical Support (900) 884-0123 $1.50 per minute 9 AM to 5 PM (CST) Monday through Friday It's $20 for _each_ GAL you order. AE Technical Support BBS (214) 241-6677 24 hours, 7 days a week I would guess the BBS functions the same. But I never called it before. Note: as recent as July of '93, somebody was able to order one or more of the GALs from the technical support. However, some one else also reported they don't have it. I guess you should ask for someone who's familiar with the TWGS. ~~6. Where can I buy crystal oscillators? Digi-Key Corporation (800) 344-4539 voice (218) 681-3380 fax From May-June 1993 catalog: Epson America, Inc.: 1/2 TTL for TWGS Part No. Frequency Price ($) TWGS speed SE1101 32 mHz 3.60 8 mHz SE1102 33.3333 3.60 8.3333 SE1103 36 3.60 9 SE1104 40 3.60 10 SE1105 42 3.60 10.5 SE1106 46 3.60 11.5 SE1107 48 3.60 12 SE1108 50 3.60 12.5 SE1109 55 3.60 13.75 SE1110 60 4.35 15 They have new half size oscillators from CTS. Looks like it's compatible with the above ones. But if you order, you're responsible to confirm compatability. The only reason I'm mentioning these new CTS ones is because they have over 60 mHz frequency. Just in case you want to try beyond 15 mHz. CTS Clock Oscillators: 1/2 TTL for TWGS Part No. Frequency Price ($) TWGS speed CTX174 32 mHz 3.44 8 mHz CTX175 40 3.44 10 CTX176 50 3.44 12.5 CTX177 64 4.70 16 CTX178 66.6666 4.70 16.6667 CTX179 80 10.59 20 Orders under $25 costs $5 to ship, over $25 is free.. My understanding is that, if you over clock a CPU. It just won't function. You can't damage it. Is that right? As the disclaimer said, do it at your own risk. for Zip you need: 1/2 TTL or full TTL? Speak up Zip owners! Note: new Zip crystal osciallor informations at the end... ~~7. What speed of static cache RAMs do I need? I have read 35ns is enough for 12.5 mHz. Not sure about the requirement of 13.75 mHz or 15 mHz. 15ns costs only slightly more than 20ns, so I recommand getting 15ns. for TWGS with the 32k cache: 3 - 32k x 8 SRAM .3 mils ( also called half size ) try to get low-power models if possible. for Zip you need: speak up Zip owners... Note: new Zip SRAM informations at the end... ~~8. Where can I buy the SRAMs? AMT International 2393 Qume Drive San Jose, CA 95131 (408) 942-9695 voice (408) 942-5509 fax Monday through Friday 8 am to 6 pm (PST), Sat. 9 am - 3 pm 32k x 8 SRAM @ 20ns $4.95 each 32k x 8 SRAM @ 15ns $5.00 each In case you want 2 - 1mb x 4 DRAM to upgrade your RamFAST rev. D to 1mb cache. 1mb x 4 DRAM @ 80ns $17.00 each Note: price may be higher now... ~~9. Do I really need to increase the voltage? You can learn to read your shmoo plot by reading the article sent by WDC. In my case, I was suppose to supply 4.75v - 5.25v to run at 12.82 mHz, 5.5v - 5.75v for 13.51 mHz, and 6v for 14.71 mHz. But I'm suppling 5v @ 13.75 mHz, and about 5.2v @ 15 mHz. Your milege may vary. It's easy to tell if you need voltage. If continuous test fails, you need more voltage, or possibly faster SRAMs, or both. ~~10. How do I increase the voltage ( with the heavy duty power supply )? WARNING: generally, it's not recommended to do this. You might decrease the life of your GS. Adjusting the pot expose you to HIGH-VOLTAGES which can be FATAL!!! If you feel at all in-competent, it is recommended you stick to 5v, or let a qualified electrician do it ( $$$ ). Another reason is, performance increase from ~12 mHz to 13.75 or 15 mHz isn't as impressive as from 7 to 9/10 mHz, probably because the GS's 1 mHz bus limit. So it might not worth the risk/time/effort to try beyond 5v. You're also at a much higher risk of damanging your TWGS/Zip/GS. The easiest way would be to purchase AE's heavy duty power supply. Memory Plus Distributor ( MPD ) sells the exact same supply ( except with out the AE sticker & price ) for slightly cheaper. LRO also carries the MPD power supply. The power connector on the mother board: _______ | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 1: ground | | | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 2: ground | | | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 3: no connection; not used | | | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 4: +5 volt supply | | | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 5: +12 volt supply | | | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 6: -12 volt supply | | | _ _| | |_| |_ pin 7: -5 volt supply |_______| Attach the volt meter's gound to either gound pin, then the positive to the +5v supply. That should give a reading of 5v. To turn up the voltage, simply open the HD ( heavy duty ) power supply. There is a pot ( which you can turn with a screw ) to adjust the voltage. || - power cord ------------- | | | | || - 7 pin connector on your motherboard | | || - see above - | | | | | | | | |oooooooooo = - wires to your motherboard |oooooooooo | |oooooooooo | |oooooooooo | - pot it located about 3" from the bottom & |oooooooooo | 1" from the right |oooooooooo | |oooooooooo | turn clock wise to increase the voltage ------------- counter clock wise to decrease the voltage turn it SLOWLY! supplying over 5.5v is not recommended. If you have a small, long screw driver, you can adjust the pot with out opening the power supply. However, I think it's actually easier if you open it. Just don't touch anything but the pot. ~~11. Where can I buy the heavy duty power supply? Memory Plus Distributors, Inc. 7902 East Pierce Street Scottsdale, Arizona 85257 (602) 820-8819 voice (602) 968-3211 fax Monday through Friday 9 am to 4 pm (MST) 7 amp GS power supply - $75 GS internal cooling fan - $19.95 internal cooling fan is highly recommended fora TWGS, or if you have a few cards in your GS. LRO also carries the MPD power supply, see above for their phone number. ~~12. Is it true that Zip can only go about 12.5 mHz? The Zip need to have the 74F00 replaced with 74HC00. ~~13. Where can I get replacement 7400 for my Zip? Need more info... ~~14. What kind of performance increase can one expect? This is just to give you a rough estimate of how much faster you might go... clock spd 2.8 15 13.75 12.5 16 - Zip v1.0.2 64k cache ======= ====== ====== ====== ====== Sieve 410.00 99.90 108.00 118.00 98.00 String 1151.20 270.40 292.00 306.33 259.00 Float 1 472.00 92.70 87.00 123.33 123.00 Float 2 1535.00 317.00 394.00 419.33 395.00 Fibinacci 2006.00 605.20 634.00 652.33 507.00 Integer 1553.40 307.40 330.00 352.33 420.00 Actual mHz 2.8 11.56 10.81 9.60 10.37 Dhrystone 236 1136 1063 1000 NA * 1351 1282 * Dhrystone v1.1 re-compiled under ORCA/C v2.0.1 You're welcome to submit your results. {end of mini-FAQ} Article 58178 (1 more) in comp.sys.apple2: From: pho@vmsa.oac.uci.edu Subject: RE: fastest GS accelerator? Nntp-Posting-Host: vmsa.oac.uci.edu Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 21 Date: 7 Jun 93 10:08:31 GMT ** I'm posting this for my cousin Long ** In article <2C12EA0D.29799@news.service.uci.edu> andrep@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Andre Prellwitz) writes: > Could anyone verify if the following is correct? The fastest you can get a > ZipGS to run is ~12Mhz (reliably) due to the cache bottleneck (or whatever), > but a Transwarp GS has been pushed to do ~15Mhz, with minor (major?) mod- > ifications/gals/cache chips. Will the ZipGS ever have its bottleneck > removed for when the 20Mhz ASIC Enterprises chip is released/produced? Getting the Zip GSX to run beyond 12 MHz is just a matter of replacing the 74F00 logic chip with a 74HC00 (highest priority), adding a voltage regular and two resistors to get >5 volts and having a good combination of static rams in tag and data. I'm currently running my Zip GSX 64k at 15.5 MHz without any kind of problem. I use and consider the following programs as a good test of reliability: NoiseTracker (the most picky), ProTERM v3.0/3.1, Task Force, AWGS, Finder and Platinum Paint. Your accelerator is not reliable unless all these programs run without even a glitch. OOTW (full screen) is a real challenge at 15.5 MHz... ;) From: pho@vmsa.oac.uci.edu Subject: RE: fastest GS accelerator? Nntp-Posting-Host: vmsa.oac.uci.edu Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 19 Date: 10 Jun 93 16:05:51 GMT * Posted for my cousin Long Hoang. * derek@slab.slip.uiuc.edu (Derek Taubert) writes: > Pardon me for not believing you, but the 74F00 has propagation and edge > rise times that are at least twice as fast as the 74HC00 part (HC - > High-speed CMOS). CMOS is fairly slow, HC means that you're running a > little bit faster than TTL LS parts. You would be better off with the F > chip, unless the reason has to do with something other than speed. Care > to explain it? True, F (Fast Schottky) is much faster than HC (High Speed CMOS). I never claimed it wasn't. The F series is commonly used on high speed 486DX-50 or 486DX2-66 motherboards. Using the F series for the Zip GSX running around 15 MHz is overkill. HC is fast enough plus it handles noise better than F (look in your HC data book and read what it says about noise). The biggest thing that's preventing the Zip GSX from running fast is NOISE. In selecting parts for Zip GSX it's more important to look for low power/low noise then speed. Article 58228 in comp.sys.apple2: From: toddpw@cco.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) Subject: Re: fastest GS accelerator? Date: 8 Jun 1993 09:24:34 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu schultp@pd-dom (Paul Schultz) writes: >Well, I just upgraded my ZipGS (v 1.02) and I can't get it >to operate at over 12 MHz (as I expected from discussions here). >In fact, I am running it at 11.5 MHz since once in a blue moon >12 MHz would make the machine "hiccup" :-) That sounds more like a CPU+RAM caused limit rather than the gate array itself. The figure I am used to hearing is 12.4 mhz, and it _can_ be gotten around, although zip (understandably) changes an arm and a leg for the fix. Since you can get 14mhz rated chips from WDC (they buy them in large lots from Sanyo), figuring out the correct board modification is the tough part. To beat F series you'd need something with a C in it, but which of HC, HCT, AC, or ACT, I'm not sure. I'll find some data books and look it up. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ cco.caltech.edu >From netcomsv!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!news.service.uci.edu!nntpsrv Wed Aug 4 10:31:51 PDT 1993 Article: 60418 of comp.sys.apple2 Path: netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!news.service.uci.edu!nntpsrv From: pho@vmsa.oac.uci.edu Subject: 16 MHz 64k Zip Benchmarks Nntp-Posting-Host: vmsa.oac.uci.edu Message-ID: <2C5EE308.28070@news.service.uci.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 117 Date: 3 Aug 93 22:13:28 GMT This is being posted for Long... Here are some info Frank Lin and some other people requested. I finally got a new battery for my watch so I can do some benchmarks. Here are a few to begin with. Let me know if think up of some other good benchmarks. BTW, I'd like to get a copy of your ORCA/C v2.0.1 compiled Dhrystone. Better yet, let's put together a standard benchmark package with the programs (excluding copyrighted stuff) and data files. About the 7400, you need to replace the 74F00 with 74HC00. What I did was cut out the 74F00 and installed a socket for the 74HC00. That's one of the few things that has to be done to run the Zip up to about 14 MHz. 16 MHz requires a little bit more work. Pretty soon, I'll be providing 14 - 16 MHz Zips for about $350. I think it's a better alternative than spending $300 on parts (base Zip, Sanyo 65c816, srams, crystal oscillator, misc. parts) and taking a gamble to see if you can get it to work properly. No worries about frying chips, pulling or breaking traces and a lot better than the $569 price Zip Inc. was charging (though they deserve it) for the 14 MHz when it was available. I won't be profiting from this but just want everyone to have fun running their IIgs at WARPPP speed and to prove to a certain person (hi Gary!) that he was wrong when he handed me a 64 MHz crystal oscillator and told me I wouldn't be able to use it and to put in a plug for Zip Inc. for providing one of the best products ever for the IIgs. System & Conditions =================== ROM 03 IIgs 16 MHz 64k Zip GSX v1.02 AE 6 MB GSRam+ Rev. D RamFast Rev. D ROM 2.01e Sony SMO-E501 594 MB magneto optical drive (referred to as MO) AE Sonic Blaster Stock power supply from ROM 01 IIgs System shift-booted before running benchmarks. Stopwatch stops when the cursor returns to the screen and no sooner. All compile times are for first time and not subsequent compiles (no use of ORCA/C precompiled headers). 2.8 MHz time shown first followed by time for 16 MHz (ie. XXX / XXX secs). The figure in parenthesis (XXX %) is the improvement over stock 2.8 MHz. Benchmark 5 =========== 16.00Mhz Result of the 1 runs Averaged (base speed = 100%) : Accelerated time Actual Mhz 10 iterations of the Sieve of Erastothenes. 98.00 10.64 500 strings selection sort. 259.00 11.29 100 iterations of floating point test. 123.00 10.45 15000 Gamm units (FPE instruction mix) in 395.00 10.41 10 iterations of Fibinacci calls in 507.00 10.05 5000 itereation Integer math in 420.00 9.39 Average 10.37 Dhrystone v1.1 (compiled with ORCA/C v2.0.0) ============== 305 / 1282 dhrystones per sec (420%) AppleWorks GS v1.1 ================== Change font from Geneva to Times: 133 / 20 secs (665%) Change font size from 12 pt to 24 pt: 106 / 19 secs (558%) Scroll through 87 pg. document (12 point Geneva font): 587 / 163 (360%) * Document GenieLamp July '93 Fillmaze v1.0 ============= 57 / 74 frames per second (130%) * Calculated 74 fps but only 60 fps displayable at 60 Hz AppleSoft BASIC =============== 1 FOR X = 1 TO 1000000 : NEXT Execute above program: 405 / 99 secs (409%) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The last four benchmarks involve a lot of disk I/O and suffer from the system having to frequently slow down to 1 MHz. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- METAL 1.09.01 & FutureVision 4.02 ================================= Compile all segments from MO to /RAM5: 257 / 122 secs (211%) GSHK v1.1 ========= Compress System 6.0.1 /SYSTEM disk from 3.5" to /RAM5: 171 / 75 secs (228%) Uncompress System 6.0.1 archive from /RAM5 to 3.5": 148 / 83 secs (178%) ORCA/C 2.0.0 ============ Compile REVERSI.CC from /RAM5 to /RAM5: 187 / 54 secs (346%) Micol Advanced BASIC GS v4.2 ============================ Compile MICOL.UTIL from /RAM5 to /RAM5: 148 / 30 secs (493%) Frank, Here are some more info that you might find useful for the TWGS/Zip FAQ. NoiseTracker v1.0/1.1 reports 11.271 MHz for a 16 MHz 64k Zip GSX. I believe someone mentioned 10.33 MHz for a 15 MHz TWGS. Correct me if I'm wrong. 6. Where can I buy crystal oscillators? for Zip you need: 1/2 TTL or full TTL? Speak up Zip owners! The Zip can use three types of crystals including the common 4-pin full TTL crystal oscillator, 4-pin 1/2 TTL crystal oscillator (also used on TWGS) and 2-pin crystal (little metal canister about 1/4 the size of 1/2 TTL). To be able to use a 2-pin crystal, your Zip must have a resistor at R1 and capacitors at C13 and C14. I've found these three parts to be missing from current Zips. No big loss since 2-pin crystals are less common and are only available up to a certain frequency. I have the values of those parts written down somewhere and will post them when I find them. For experimenting with different frequencies it makes it easier if you install a socket for the crystal oscillator. It's also a good idea to secure it down with one of those zip tie bands. Only 6 of the 14 pins are used (picture A). The ground (GND) pins 1, 4 and 7 are connected together. The power pins 11 and 14 are connected together. Full TTL crystal oscillators use pins 1, 7, 8 and 14 (refer to picture B). 1/2 TTL crystal oscillators use the bottom four pins (4, 7, 8 and 14; picture C). Make sure it's oriented correctly with the corner (usually with a dot printed next to it) at about 11 o'clock. *WARNING* The crystal oscillator will be damaged if installed incorrectly. _______ GND 1 o \/ o 14 POWER 1 |o \ 14 NC x x NC | | NC x x NC | FULL | ______ GND 4 o o 11 POWER | TTL | 4 |o \ 14 NC x x NC | | | 1/2 | NC x x NC | | | TTL | GND 7 o o 8 CLOCK 7 \______/ 8 7 \_____/ 8 (A) (B) (C) x - no connection (NC) 7. What speed of static cache RAMs do I need? for Zip you need: speak up Zip owners. I've found Japanese and American static rams to work the best (20 ns in tag and 25 ns in data). The Zip can use narrow (.3 mil) or wide (.6 mil) static rams. It all depends on the sockets that are installed on your Zip. With a little modification you can make a Zip with wide sockets accept both wide and skinny static rams. Ground yourself then carefully pry out the static rams. Look at the socket and you will notice two or three horizontal bars holding both sides of the socket together (picture D). Carefully cut those out. This will expose a column of holes where you will solder in half of a socket. Refer to picture E, position skinny (.3 mil) static rams over the left and center columns and wide static rams over outer most columns and making sure the notch on the static ram is facing 12 o'clock. *WARNING* Plug the static rams in wrong and you will destroy them. CUT ___ ___________ Skinny (.3 mil) | | | | ____ ____ _ _ _ |o __V__ o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o|__o__|o| |o| |o| |o| |o _____ o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| o |o| |o| |o| |o| |o|__o__|o| |o| |o| |o| |o _____ o| |o| |o| |o| |_______|___ Wide (.6 mil) (D) (E) 12. Is it true that Zip can only go about 12.5 mHz? Only if you don't know how to make it run faster. With a little bit of work it can run up to 16 MHz just fine and possibly even faster. -- frank m. lin fmlin@netcom.com