________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-101. Mon 03 Feb 1992. Lines: 143 Subject: 3.101 Proto-World (Part 2) Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 19:13:07 EST From: Michael Newman Subject: Re: 3.87 Proto-World 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 10:18 MET From: "Norval Smith (UVAALF::NSMITH)" Subject: RE: 3.87 Proto-World 3) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 14:19:20 EST From: Geoffrey Russom Subject: Re: 3.87 Scientific American 4) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 15:38:29 EST Subject: Historical linguistics is `out' From: Stavros Macrakis 5) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 15:19:58 +0100 From: Swann Philip Subject: 3.87 Proto-World -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 19:13:07 EST From: Michael Newman Subject: Re: 3.87 Proto-World I think Andrew Carnie made a good point. I think that perhaps the popular science press ignores what we consider the central issues of linguistics becuas e these problems just aren't sexy to those outside the discipline. This may (or it may not) be related to the fact that during academic financial crises it seems all too frequent for linguistics departments to get closed, and that unlike the case of what happens in Europe, in the US, courses in linguistics are not considered a central part of most university majors which deal with language, such as foreign languages, English or Communications. Why? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 10:18 MET From: "Norval Smith (UVAALF::NSMITH)" Subject: RE: 3.87 Proto-World Scientific American/Proto-World In reply to Andrew Carnie's remark about Scientific American's publication of linguistics-related articles I by chance had within four feet a copy of Scientific American (July 1983) containing an article by Derek Bickerton on Creole Languages in which the innateness hypothesis features prominently. That said I have to admit that the choice of the occasional article that the S.A. publishes on linguistics does not inspire confidence in the editors' advisors whoever these might be. Norval Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 14:19:20 EST From: Geoffrey Russom Subject: Re: 3.87 Scientific American Perhaps one problem with SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN is its sentimental attachment to good old 19th-century American positivism. I am particularly struck by a certain fondness for the word "machine," used to describe complex biological systems, human minds, etc. To me (and I think to most poeple) a "machine" is something made of macroscopic, even clunky, parts that interact in rather simple, Newtonian ways. In that sense, the "mechanical" metaphor isn't really applicable even to computers that depend on non-Newtonian properties of elementary particles. And of course it's pretty clear that we aren't going to have talking robots whose heads can be opened up to reveal wires and 12SL7 power tubes. Anybody have any insight into the persistence of the "machine" metaphor? Are we still a nation of tinkerers? Any gender issues here? -- Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 15:38:29 EST Subject: Historical linguistics is `out' From: Stavros Macrakis In Linguist 3.87, Andrew Carnie (acarnie@Athena.MIT.EDU) says: ...It concerns me that [Sci.Am.] should be presenting [the ProtoWorld hypothesis] at all. The popular press seems to be under the mistaken opinion that Historical Linguistics is the mainstream in linguistic thought; ... its about time that Scientific American and its ilk start publishing articles about issues that are of interest to the majority of linguists. When I was an undergraduate at MIT, you had to cross-register at Harvard to study historical linguistics, evolutionary and organismic biology, and social psychology, not to mention art history. After all, the only `real' linguistics is transformational, the only `real' biology is molecular, the only `real' psychology is brain science; as for art history, .... Now if only Scientific American (and let's not forget `its ilk') could be persuaded to cover only `real' science, as defined by the `mainstream of scientific thought'.... After all, everyone knows that Scientific American is written for those mainstream scientists who want to hear what other mainstream scientists are studying. -s -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 15:19:58 +0100 From: Swann Philip Subject: 3.87 Proto-World I'm not sure it's really fair to describe Scientific American as part of the 'popular science press' - the articles are nearly always written by the researchers who did the original work, not by journalists. Interestingly, the only reference to Language in the 1991 index of 'Nature' is to a discussion of Language Origins by Robert Foley (vol 353, 114-15). He refers to Cavalli-Sforza and reprints a figure from the 1988 paper. His main topic, 'though, is a fascinating paper by Nobel and Davidson (Man, 26, 223-54) on the probable date for the emergence of language in hominids (circa 40,000 years ago). If 'Nature' thinks that the discussion is worth recording, then linguists should perhaps hesitate before dismissing it as pseudo-science (people in glass houses ...). Philip Swann FPSE-TECFA University of Geneva -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-101. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-102. Mon 03 Feb 1992. Lines: 110 Subject: 3.102 Jobs: Trondheim, Delaware Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1992 09:23:29 +0000 From: Curt Rice Subject: Phonetics job: Trondheim 2) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 92 14:30:14 EST From: Peter Cole Subject: Faculty Positions in Linguistics at the University of Delaware -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1992 09:23:29 +0000 From: Curt Rice Subject: Phonetics job: Trondheim The Department of Linguistics at the University of Trondheim (Norway) has a vacant position in acoustic and perceptual phonetics. Knowledge of Norwegian is not required at the time of application, although the successful applicant will be expected to learn Norwegian within three years of assuming duties. The deadline for applications is March 13, 1992. Contact Thorstein Fretheim for information on the required application materials and submission procedure, etc., at thorstein.fretheim@avh.unit.no or at: Department of Linguistics, University of Trondheim, 7055 Dragvoll, Norway. ------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 92 14:30:14 EST From: Peter Cole Subject: Faculty Positions in Linguistics at the University of Delaware Faculty Positions in Linguistics at the University of Delaware The Department of Linguistics at the University of Delaware is anticipating one or more faculty positions for the 1992- 93 academic year in the following areas: Psycholinguistics--The ideal candidate would have an interest in both theoretical and applied psycholinguistics, and would be familiar with current research in linguistic theory. While the specialization within psycholinguistics is open, the interests of the candidates should include second language acquisition. Phonological theory--Candidates should present clear evidence of significant achievements in phonological theory. Expertise in morphology, phonetics and/or in some language area is desirable. Formal syntax--Candidates should present clear evidence of significant achievements in syntactic theory. Expertise in an allied area such as morphology, semantics, mathematical linguistics and/or computational linguistics is desirable. Appointments will be made at the level of Assistant Professor, or, possibly at the level of untenured Associate Professor. We hope to make tenure track appointments, but if the right candidates are not found, or if tenure track funding for all needed positions is not available, some appointments may be made on a one year basis. There is no formal deadline for receipt of applications: Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. For first consideration, however, applications should be received by March 1, 1992. Applications should include a CV, a brief statement of current and projected research and teaching interests, copies of publications and a list of at least three referees (including address, e-mail address and phone). Candidates should ask referees to write to us immediately and should also inform us whether they wish to be considered for a tenure track position, a one year position or both. Candidates whose interests and qualifications include more than one of the above areas should indicate this. Materials should be addressed to Linguistics Search Committee, Department of Linguistics, University of Delaware, 46 E. Delaware, Newark, DE 19716. For further information regarding the psycholinguistics position, please contact Professor William Frawley (billf@brahms.udel.edu); for information on the phonology position, contact Professor Irene Vogel (adx26745@udelvm.bitnet), and for information on the syntax position, contact Professor Peter Cole (linguistics@udel.edu). The University of Delaware is an Equal Opportunity Employer which encourages application from Minority Group Members and Women. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-102. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-103. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 338 Subject: 3.103 Celtic Etymologies, Tolkien Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 14:36:03 GMT From: Briony Williams Subject: Re: 3.78 Celtic etymology 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 10:45:58 EST From: cowan@uunet.UU.NET (John Cowan) Subject: J.R.R. Tolkien on "Celtic" 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 21:37 EET From: MANYMAN@FINUHA.bitnet Subject: Celtic Etymologies: Avalon -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 14:36:03 GMT From: Briony Williams Subject: Re: 3.78 Celtic etymology This is a response to the recent posting by Dana Paramskas (paramskasdm@CCVAX.CCS.CSUS.EDU) which included a discussion on Celtic place-names from the CAMELOT list, concerning Arthurian legend. Since no-one else has contributed on Welsh etymology, I will venture the following. The proper nouns 'Arawn' and 'Annwuyn/Annwn' appear in the first of the Four Branches of the Mabinogi, Pwyll Pendeuic Dyuet. The version I studied as an undergraduate (I make no claims to being an expert!) is 'Pwyll Pendeuic Dyuet', edited by R.L. Thomson (1957, Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies). This contains annotations in English and an introduction. Thomson's comments on _Annwuyn_ are (op. cit., pp. 25-26): "_Annwuyn_ may be explained from _an_ and _dwuyn_ 'deep', hardly 'undeep' but rather pejoratively 'fearfully deep'; thus Loth calls Annwn an _abi^me_. Comparison with Ir[ish] shows both _domain_ 'deep' and _domun_ 'world', as in Dumno-rix, virtually synonymous with the plural Bitu-riges, Ir[ish] _bith_, W[elsh] _byt_ 'world': hence _an_ and _dwuyn_ 'the not (this) world', 'the Otherworld'. Or again with pejorative colouring leading on to the Christian meaning 'Hell', 'the evil world'. PKM [Pedeir Keinc y Mabinogi, I. Williams (ed.), 1930, Cardiff] suggests that _an-_ has the sense of 'in, inside', so 'the inner world', inside hills and mounds. Both texts [from which this edited version is compiled] read _Annwuyn_ at first, and both change to the later form _Annwn_ before the end..." Thomson does not seem to give any gloss for _Arawn_, and so the meaning of this proper noun (if any) is probably not known. The pronunciation of _Annwuyn_ is something like /a - n u - v @ n/ (with stress on the second syllable, probably), where /a/ is as in 'cat', /u/ as in 'book', /@/ as in the first syllable of 'about', and /-/ is a syllable boundary. Similarly, _Annwn_ is pronounced /a - n u n/, with stress on the first syllable (probably). In _Annwuyn_, orthographic "w" represents a vowel, while orthographic "u" represents a consonant (each of these two graphemes is capable of representing either a vowel or a consonant, depending on the orthographic context). The main contributor in the article posted earlier makes the following comment: [Main contributor: name unknown to me] >The >Mabinogion says Arawn reigns in Annwn (or Annwfn), and although I don't know >the pronunciation of the word (I don't speak Gaelic in any form), I do know >that v's easily become w's and vice versa. Could this term be related to >Avalon? In any case, it could easily be the term for the underworld or land >of the dead It is _not_ very probable that "v's easily become w's and vice versa", as orthographic 'w' can have the pronunciations /w/ or /u/, but not /v/ (voiced labio-dental fricative), while the grapheme 'v' does not exist in Modern Welsh, and is hardly used at all in the text under discussion (and then only word- initially). The grapheme 'u' can have the pronunciations /u/, /w/ (after /g/ and /a/) and /v/, while /v/ is also represented by the grapheme 'f' when word-final or when syllable-final before a consonant (see Thomson's Introduction): the grapheme 'f' always represents /v/ in Modern Welsh (as in _Annwfn_, /a - n u - v u n/). If _Avalon_ were descended from _Annwuyn_, furthermore, it would have had to lose the first /n/ and gain the phoneme /l/. Since the first /n/ is geminate and the second is not, the loss of the first with the retention of the second seems unlikely. (N.B: the text is written in Welsh, not Gaelic). [main contributor: name unknown to me] >seen anyone mention "Arawn" (the god of the underworld or otherworld in the >Mabinogian) in this connection, even tho it obviously equates. In the text, Arawn is described as _king_ rather than _god_. In addition, one other king of Annwuyn is mentioned, Hafgan, whose kingdom is opposite that of Arawn's. Since mythological underworlds usually have only one overlord, it is unlikely that Annwuyn is intended to be the land of the dead. [main contributor: name unknown to me] >In a brief introduction to Tales of King Arthur (an illustrated >and heavily edited edition of Mallory) Michael Senior claims that Geoffrey >of Monmouth found the term Avalon in a French source and that from the 12th >century onward it was associated with Glastonbury. This explanation sounds eminently plausible. From internal evidence, Thomson dates the present form of the Four Branches of the Mabinogi around the late eleventh century, i.e. not particularly early, and not early enough for the 12th century form _Avalon_ to be derived from it. [another contributor: name unknown to me] >Personally, I find the Aryan Arawn connection suspect, it strikes me as >Gravesianism (the connecting of words because it makes for good poetry, then >calling it scholarship); I do, however find the Erin Aryan connection >plausible. It's the underworld tie that I don't see evidence for. I agree. ----------------------------------------------- Briony Williams briony@uk.ac.ed.cstr Centre for Speech Technology Research, University of Edinburgh 80 South Bridge, Edinburgh EH1 1HN, UK. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 10:45:58 EST From: cowan@uunet.UU.NET (John Cowan) Subject: J.R.R. Tolkien on "Celtic" The recent discussion of Erin vs. Avalon was prefigured in J.R.R. Tolkien's public lecture "English and Welsh" (reprinted in >The Monsters And The Critics And Other Essays<, ed. Christopher Tolkien, HMCo Boston 1984, ISBN 0-395-35635-0), as follows: "To many, perhaps to most people outside the small company of the great scholars, past and present, 'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a magic bag, into which anything may be put, and out of which almost anything may come. Thus I read recently a review of a book by Sir Gavin de Beer, and, in what appeared to be a citation from the original*, I noted the following opinion on the river-name >Arar< (Livy) and >Araros< (Polybius): 'Now Arar derives from the Celtic root meaning running water which occurs also in many English river-names like Avon.' It is a strange world in which >Avon< and >Araros< can have the same 'root' (a vegetable analogy still much loved by the non-philological when being wise about words). Catching the lunatic infection, one's mind runs on to the River Arrow, and even to arrowroot, to Ararat, and the descent into Avernus. Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight, which is not so much a twilight of the gods as of the reason." The footnote reads: "*For my purpose it does not matter at all whether Sir Gavin or his reviewer was the author of the remark: both were posing as scholars." Comment on my part would be superfluous. -- cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 21:37 EET From: MANYMAN@FINUHA.bitnet Subject: Celtic Etymologies: Avalon In the Linguist List 3-78, Dana Paramskas reports the discussion that has been going on in the CAMELOT list concerning the etymology of some Celtic place names (Arran, Avalon). Although the CAMELOTists are likely to take a greater interest in what I'm going to say, I'm sending my response to the Linguist List as well. It won't do any harm having some etymological leisure in the tumult of all the linguistic reeling & rocking {:-)]= Martti Nyman Dept of General Limguistics, Univ of Helsinki, Finland Re: Arran Some contributors have dismissed any etymological connection between Arran and Aryan. They are likely to be right. Most professional Indo-Europeanists prefer to confine the name Aryan to Indo-Iranian. The antiquated association of the word arya with Greek aristos 'best, noble(st)' is to be rejected on semantic grounds which have been laid down by Paul Thieme in his book Der Fremdling im Rgveda: Eine Studie ueber die Bedeu- tung der Worte ari, arya, aryaman und a:rya (Leipzig 1938). According to him, ari means 'stranger', and so the polysemous semantics of arya is pretty much the same as that of Latin hostis 'enemy' and German Gast 'guest' taken together. Consequently, also Eriu (and Erin) must be disconnected from the Aryans. Let me say in consolation that the Indo- European "Urvolk" was scarcely so "noble" as our romantic ima- gination tends to picture them. :-) The Isle of Arran was identified with the supernatural island of Emhain Abhlach 'E. of the Apple-Trees'. It is the notion of apple(-tree) which connects Arran (qua Emhain Abhlach) with Avalon. Formally, Arran and Avalon have nothing to do with each other. Re: Avalon I have three sections: 1. Toponomastics; 2. PIE 'apple'; 3. Isle of the Blessed. 1. Toponomastics. In Celtic mythology, Avalon -- which is usually taken to mean 'Apple-Island' -- was the Island of the Blessed. However this happy Otherworld is identified, Avalon cannot be separated from its toponomastic namesakes, such as Avallon which is the centre of Avallonais (pagus Avalensis) in Low Bourgogne (Yonne). Avallon is the old Aballo, a town of the Haedui in Gallia Lugodunensis, mentioned in the Tabula Peutingeriana. Aballo was an 'Apple-Town', as the Gallic word abalo 'apple' shows (see e.g. W.v.Wartburg, Franzoesisches Etymologisches Woerterbuch I [1928] p.2 s.v. aballo). Aballo was one of the ancient Apple-Towns (e.g. Male- ventum, Pometia) or Apple-Islands (e.g. Greek Me:los). One of the toponomastic namesakes of Aballo was the ancient town Abella in Campania, now Castel d'Avella, northeast from Vesuvius. Virgil calls Abella Apple-Town: Aen.7,740 et quos mali- ferae despectant moenia Abellae. But we know from ancient sources that Abella was renown not from being malifera 'apple- growing' but rather nucifera 'nut-growing': the ancient nux Abella still lives in Italian and Spanish avellana and French aveline. This is interesting, because Virgil could not pos- sibly base his Apple-Town association upon what he knew of the town's economy. Obviosly "malifera Abella" was an etymological reminiscence derived from some real source of knowledge. Some possibilities have been brought forward by J.S.Th.Hansen (in: Symbolae Osloenses 76 [1948] p.120). According to him, Virgil knew abella either as a Celtic word from his childhood in Mantua or, more probably, as an Oscan word which he knew directly or through Varro the antiquarian. These possibilities do not exclude each other, but the Celtic hypothesis doesn't explain the "Namengebung". Abella was (or at least had been) an Oscan town, and the word abella must be Oscan. Oscan abella may be traced back to the proto-word morph- ologically analyzable as *ablo-na (> *ablna > *abelna > abella) 'apple tree'. Avalon has a lot of toponomastic namesakes: Aballava (a castel), Abalus (an island), Abellinum (a town near Abella), Abellio (a god), Abelmea, &c., to mention only Latin reflexes. Such names characteristically spread through colonization (as may be seen from the fact that Avalon occurs in the New World as well), and it may be interesting to note that Abella was believed to have been a Greek colony. I shall not pursue this train of thoght further, though it is of potential interest. 2. PIE 'apple' is best reflected in Celtic, Germanic, Baltic, and Slavic, but Oscan abella gives the Italic reflex as well: Celtic *ablu-: Gallic aballo O.Irish ubull Welsh afal British aval Slavic *ablu-: O.Ch.S. ablu-ko O.Polish jablo O.Russ. jablu-ko Baltic *a:bl-: Prussian woble Lithuan. obuolas, obuolys Latvian abuols Germanic *aplu-: Gothic apel (=Crimean Goth.) (*aplya- >) O.Icel. epli OE aeppel OHG apful, afful Italic *ablo-: Oscan abella (< *ablo-na). More data and views in: E.P.Hamp, Zeitschrift fuer Celtische Philologie 37 [1979] 158-166; D.Q.Adams, Indogermanische For- schungen 90 [1985] 79-82; Th.V.Gamkrelidze, Aspects of Lan- guage: Studies in Honour of Mario Alinei, I (Amsterdam: 1986), 91-97; A.L.Lloyd & O.Springer, Etymologisches Woerter-buch des Althochdeutschen, I (Goettingen 1988), 298-301 s.v. apful. Phonological reconstruction would give ProtoIE *abl- with some stem variation (-u-/-o-/0). The Baltic group might give reason to a morphologically sophisticated reconstruction: Lith. obuolas/obuolys would speak for setting up an ablauting consonant stem for PIE: *abo:l, *abel-, *abl- (Hamp, Adams). *abl- has often been regarded as a pre-IE loan, because there are no firmly established PIE roots with *b. It would be easier to believe in PIE extraction, if *b could be shown to be secondary. From this angle the Anatolian and Indo-Aryan evidence adduced by Gamkrelidze is very interesting: Anatolian *Saml-: Hittite sam(a)lu- 'apple' [sibilants have Hattic sawat- (t *amblu- > *ablu. 3. The Isle of the Blessed. Sec.1 vindicated Avalon as Apple- Island. But how does this mesh with the idea that Avalon was the Isle of the Dead? The best I can offer is perhaps some food for thought. Rather than Isle of the Dead, Avalon may be looked upon as the Isle of the Blessed. The idea behind this is of course that heroes never die. Their life continues for ever in the happy Otherworld. Insofar as apple is concerned, I have the impression that apple has had an important role to play as a symbol of etenity and strength or power (witness e.g. the "Reichsapfel" as a symbol of imperial power). Re Avalon qua Apple-Island, I can't resist suggesting a wild idea which might be worth pursuing further. The ancient Greeks had more than one notion of the happy Otherworld. Besides Elysium, there was the Land of the Hyperboreans "beyond the North Wind" or "beyond the High Mountains (in the North)", and the Land of the Hesperides in the extreme West not far from the Isle of the Blessed at the edge of the Ocean. The garden of the Hesperides grew golden apples, and according to one myth Heracles went to seek these fruits of immortality. His search for the golden apples obviosly symbolizes his apotheosis. Now, if we indulge ourselves in "geographizing" the Land of the Hyperboreans which was supposed to be close to the Isle of the Blessed, we can't dispense with the conclusion that the farther we go to the West, the more Celtic (or pre-Celtic) culture there was. Maybe the original Avalon lies not far from the Land of the Hesperides? Or maybe the original Avalon WAS the Land of the Hesperides? (c) Martti Nyman 1992 Department of General Linguistics, University of Helsinki, Hallituskatu 11-13, SF-00100 Helsinki, Finland. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-103. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-104. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 126 Subject: 3.104 Second Person Plural Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1992 13:24 EDT From: Mark Littlefield Subject: youse 2) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 17:11:55 EST From: susann@starbase.MITRE.ORG (Susann Luperfoy) Subject: Your All's 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 20:32:57 EST From: kevans@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Karin Evans) Subject: Re: 3.99 Queries: Visual Semiotics, HyperQual, Your All's 4) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 13:21 EDT From: Mark Littlefield Subject: Youse -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1992 13:24 EDT From: Mark Littlefield Subject: youse The various terms used for 2nd personal plural pronoun in English reflect a need in the language for a way to express this; apparently you is too ambiguous; the East (Buffalo) is characterized by youse [yuz] in lower- to middle-class language, although the expressions "youse guys" is considered substandard or childish. You-all in southern speech is definitly established as acceptable in all but the most formal registers. I am interested in this in general, and as a teacher of Spanish, where usages of the 2nd plural (as well as singular) pronoun vary from country to country. I believe that, after a period of struggle, American English will have settled into an acceptable form of 2nd plural pronoun within 100 years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 17:11:55 EST From: susann@starbase.MITRE.ORG (Susann Luperfoy) Subject: Your All's >I just read this quote in today's NY Times (1/31 p.A12) >"'This is all inane, stupid and insulting, and I hope the American people jam >it down your-all's throat' Bob Slagle, the chairman of the Democratic Party in >Texas told reporters. > Might this be just a bad transcription with the "r" supplied by the reporter in place of what might have been a very long vowel, making "your-all's" out of "y'all's." Especially likely if the reporter's dialect doesn't include "y'all" and if he/she was anticipating a genitive. Susann LuperFoy -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 20:32:57 EST From: kevans@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Karin Evans) Subject: Re: 3.99 Queries: Visual Semiotics, HyperQual, Your All's Two graduate students at Purdue from Tennessee have both heard and used "your-all's" in constructions like these: Your-all's garden is really gorgeous this year. I don't know if your-all's relatives are going to be able to come. We made up these examples with the query in mind, but the usage is very comfortable to both of us. Lisa Tally (from Pleasant View in Middle Tennessee) tallylh@sage.cc.purdue.edu Karin Evans (from Knoxville in East Tennessee) kevans@mace.cc.purdue.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 13:21 EDT From: Mark Littlefield Subject: Youse I would like to refine my hasty remarks of 1 February. English is trying to find a way to express the 2nd person plural. There seem to be 3 ways of doing this: 1. You + vocative (you people, you guys, you ladies, etc.) 2. Youse 3. You all It is my impression that 1 is the acceptable term, fitting for all but the most formal speech. I believe that 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive. In addition, 2 is considered sub-standard, and would never be used in formal speech. As for 3, I believe that it can exist alongside 1, that people who say 'you all' will also say 'you people.' This is based on some years living in Williamsburg VA, but it is, at this distance, just a vague memory. One sees an adjustment in other languages. In Brazilian Portuguese, the original 'tu' form of 2nd sg. is now largely (and subject to regional norms) replaced by 'voce' in the 3rd person. This 'voce' in turn, and the formal term of address has become 'o senhor/a senhora', 'the gentleman/the lady/' (also in plural), used with the 3rd person. Mark G. Littlefield BITNET: littlemg@snybufva Foreign Language Department INTERNET: littlemg@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu Buffalo State College TELEPHONE: (716) 878-5810 Buffalo NY 14222 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-104. ________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-105. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 112 Subject: 3.105 Nominative/Infinitive, Scandanavian Clustersc Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 92 21:18:15 EST From: jack Subject: Nominative with Infinitive 2) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1992 16:09:04 +0000 From: Dyvik@hf.uib.no Subject: Clusters -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 92 21:18:15 EST From: jack Subject: Nominative with Infinitive As I am not a syntactician, I am actually not the proper one to post this, but Michael Jones of University of Essex (UK) has not (perhaps not being a subscriber) and he would be the authority. Thus I merely present data, and do not theorize. More information can be found in his section in Harris and Vincent's _Romance Languages_ (Oxford U Press 1988), his article in _TPS_86 (1988) 173-203, and the paper he read at the Ohio State Linguistic Symposium on Romance Languages 1989. Sardinian has sentences like the following (don't distress yourself about dialect variation, and consider the transcription to be broad, since our eye is on syntax,not phonology): 1. non kerjo kantare = I don't want to sing 2. deu non kerjo kantare = I don't want to sing (Sard is pro-drop) 3. non kerjo a kantare Maria = I don't want Mary to sing 4. non kerjo a kantare tue = I don't want you to sing 5. non kerjo a kantare issu = I don't want him to sing. (note that 'tue' and 'issu' are both nominative, and note also the complementizer 'a', unlike sentence 1. More interesting are senten- ces like the following, where sentence 6 assumes you (tue) are sing- ing, and sentence 7 assumes some other people are obviously singing and you don't want them to: 6. non kerjo a kantare = I don't want you to sing 7. non kerjo a kantare = I don't want them to sing Aha! Now there's pro-drop for ya! 8. non kerjo intsultare a Maria = I don't want to insult Mary 9. non kerjo a m'intsultare = I don't want (them) to insult me Note also examples in M L Wagner, _La Lingua Sarda_ (Bern n.d. 381-2); Blasco Ferrer _Lingua Sarda Contemporanea_ 165; Blasco Ferrer _Storia Linguistica della Sardegna_ 223-5. (I lack bib. data) Enjoy them in good health! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1992 16:09:04 +0000 From: Dyvik@hf.uib.no Subject: Clusters Since a collection of examples of vowel-epenthesis in l- and r-clusters is being built up, here is a set of examples from Proto-Scandinavian. Several runic inscriptions,from between c. A.D. 400 and c. A.D. 675 (Krause's dates) show unetymological a (or u or e) in l- and r-clusters (and a few others). One plausible interpretation is that these written forms reflect back epenthetic vowels. The examples are: worahto < *worht- (Tune, Norway, c. 400) arageu < *arg- (Bjoerketorp, Sweden, c. 675; Stentoften, Sweden, c. 650) heramala(u)saR < *herm- (Stentoften) haeramalausR < *herm (Bjoerketorp) (w)orumalaib(a) < *worm- (Myklebostad, Norway, c. 400) haraRaR < *hraR- (Eidsvaag, Norway, c. 475) harabanaR < *hrabn- (Jaersberg, Sweden, c. 525) waritu < *writ- (Jaersberg) warait < *wrait (Istaby, Sweden, c. 625) bariuti@ < *briut- (Stentoften) barutR < *briut- (Bjoerketorp) hedera < *hedr- (Stentoften) -wolaf-, -wulaf- < *wulf- (Gummarp, Sweden, c. 600, Istaby, Stentoften) felaheka < *felh- (Stentoften) falahak < *falh- (Bjoerketorp) halaiban < *hlaib- (Tune) hagala < *hagl-(?) (Kragehul, Denmark, c. 525) gisalas < *gisl- (Kragehul) AfatR < *aftR (Istaby) Helge Dyvik Department of Linguistics and Phonetics University of Bergen Sydnesplass 9 Tel 47-5-212261 N-5007 Bergen, Norway E-mail dyvik@uib.no -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-105. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-106. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 132 Subject: 3.106 Is, is, Finite-Sets Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 92 11:11:14 EST From: Geoffrey Russom Subject: Re: 3.93 Is, is 2) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 13:40:58 MST From: Subject: 3.93 Is, is 3) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 92 12:40:38 EST From: rws@mbeya.research.att.com (Richard Sproat) Subject: is, is hypercorrection 4) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 21:52:30 EST From: "Wlodek Zadrozny" Subject: finite, non-well defined sets, non-standard set theories -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 92 11:11:14 EST From: Geoffrey Russom Subject: Re: 3.93 Is, is On "What the best avenue for pointing this out is, however, unclear": I don't this is hypercorrection to avoid the "is is" construction we've been discussing. It looks more like the sort of syntactic haplology that arises in many constructions, e.g. "He's the kind of guy you can go (to) to help you with your problems." One of the interesting things about the "is is" construction is is that it goes counter to the haplological tendency. -- Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 13:40:58 MST From: Subject: 3.93 Is, is My office mate said a few days ago: "Is all we're doing is putting this in logical form," When confronted about this, he said that it sounded like something he would say (ie he didn't perceive it as a performance error) I myself sometimes find myself saying something like: "All's we're doing is " I don't have any hypotheses about these constructions, but they do exhibit an extra copula. At least I think so. I'm not sure what the "'s" is in my "all's". Could be possessive or a dialectal variant or a strange plural of some kind. I certainly don't THINK I say, "All is we're doing is ..." Steve Helmreich (shelmrei@nmsu.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 92 12:40:38 EST From: rws@mbeya.research.att.com (Richard Sproat) Subject: is, is hypercorrection Alex Monaghan points out that I hypercorrected in the sentence: What the best avenue for pointing this out is, however, unclear. And hypercorrect I did. I even remember thinking about this one and choosing, it would seem, wrongly. Oh well. All I can say is that if there hadn't been all this discussion this never would have happened (hee hee). It's sort of like the observation (?) that discussion of speech errors makes people more prone to make them. Richard Sproat Linguistics Research Department AT&T Bell Laboratories 600 Mountain Avenue, Room 2d-451 Murray Hill, NJ 07974 tel (908) 582-5296 fax (908) 582-7308 rws@research.att.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 21:52:30 EST From: "Wlodek Zadrozny" Subject: finite, non-well defined sets, non-standard set theories In a reply to recent discussion about whether the set of primes known to Manaster-Ramer is well defined, I'd like to note that it is very likely possible to model such sets by the techniques described in my paper: "Cardinalities and well oderings in a commonsense set theory" Proc. First. Intern. Conf. on Principles of Knowledge Representation and Reasoning. Edited by Ronald J. Brachman, Hector J. Levesque, and Raymond Reiter. Pub.: Morgan Kaufmann, San Mateo, CA. 1989. pp.486-497 I show there that it is possible to have finite well orderings without cardinalities, and finite sets which cannot be well ordered. The motivating examples are a set of dots which we do not have time to count (or the set of letters on the line above, about which we know that it is finite, but it doesnt' have cardinality, unless we put some effort and count the letters); and a set of balls in a box, which is finite, but, intuitively, not well ordered. I don't have time now to try to model the set of M-R's primes, but perhaps some interested reader will try it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-106. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-107. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 77 Subject: 3.107 Queries: Polish Address, Mandarin, Spanish Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 22:26:39 EST From: "Wayles Browne, Cornell University" Subject: Polish address query 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 17:07 MET From: JEROEN WIEDENHOF Subject: Aspect in Mandarin 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 20:42:27 -0600 From: edding@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Eddington) Subject: Spanish Word List 4) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 92 15:39:00 PDT Subject: "def" From: a-peggym@microsoft.com -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 22:26:39 EST From: "Wayles Browne, Cornell University" Subject: Polish address query Does anyone know the postal or e-mail address of Brygida Rudzka, author of language textbooks from Lublin, Poland? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 17:07 MET From: JEROEN WIEDENHOF Subject: Aspect in Mandarin Dear colleagues,in I am looking for the name of the publisher of the following work: Li, Chor-sing, _Beitraege_zur_kontrastiven_Aspektologie:_das_Aspektsystem_ _im_modernen_Chinesisch_. The book must have been published in Bern in 1991 as "Reihe 21, Band 102" of the series Europaeische Hochschulschriften. Could anyone tell me who published it? Thanks! Jeroen Wiedenhof -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 20:42:27 -0600 From: edding@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Eddington) Subject: Spanish Word List I would greatly appreciate anyone's help in locating a word list, or dictionary in Spanish that has been scanned into computer format. I am involved in some morphological analyses that such a list would benefit from. David Eddington -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 92 15:39:00 PDT Subject: "def" From: a-peggym@microsoft.com Does anyone know the etymology of "def", meaning very good or attractive? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-107. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-108. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 120 Subject: 3.100 Intensifiers, not, ok, but Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 13:35:49 -0500 From: macaulay@j.cc.purdue.edu (Monica Macaulay) Subject: way again 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 11:49:22 +1100 From: mdr412@coombs.anu.edu.au (Malcolm Ross) Subject: Re: 3-83 Australian postposed "but" 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 13:10:57 -0500 From: 2qn@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Marnie Jo Petray) Subject: Re: 3.95 Intensifiers 4) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 16:31 PST From: Pamela Munro Subject: OK -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 13:35:49 -0500 From: macaulay@j.cc.purdue.edu (Monica Macaulay) Subject: way again Tom Payne's comments reminded me that I forgot to point out the most interesting thing about the two examples I posted earlier ("way toast" and "way Indiana") - note that both modify nouns, not adjectives. Until I heard these, I'd only ever heard it modifying adjectives - e.g. "way cool." Also heard a weird "NOT" today - I said to a freshman something along the lines of: "Oh, [deleted], I think I forgot the disk with the file we need on it," and she said: "NOT. Oh, Monica, NOT!" - meaning she hoped I wasn't right, and that I hadn't forgotten it. Monica -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 11:49:22 +1100 From: mdr412@coombs.anu.edu.au (Malcolm Ross) Subject: Re: 3-83 Australian postposed "but" In a recent posting the use of Australian postposed "but" was described, as illustrated in the movie "Fringe Dwellers". I haven't seen the movie. However, the observations made in that posting seem basically correct to me. Postposed "but" does form an intonation unit with the preceding material. It seems to be true that it does not occur on clauses that are intonationally part of longer sentences, largely because the clause with "but" is usually a response to another speaker's statement, or an afterthought following something the speaker has said: the "but" response normally adds some kind of qualification to that statement. Its usage corresponds quite closely, I think, to postposed "though" in British English. The posting observed use of postposed "but" over a large age range of Aboriginal Australians. Here in Canberra I hear it most often among whites under the age of thirty. Malcolm Ross Linguistics RSPacS Australian National University -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 13:10:57 -0500 From: 2qn@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Marnie Jo Petray) Subject: Re: 3.95 Intensifiers Relative to the intensifier "big time" is "big dog," for example "I'm big dog tired" or "That's a big dog mistake." Its usage is common to many parts of the South, although I have no idea of its origin. Marnie Petray 2qn@mace.cc.purdue.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 16:31 PST From: Pamela Munro Subject: OK Re the suggested Wolof origin of OK I bet I'm the only LINGUIST subscriber who knows quite a bit about both Wolof and Choctaw (I'd love to hear from others). This is relevant because Choctaw has also been suggested as the source of English OK, as Wolof was in 3.084. I am VERY dubious about the suggested Wolof source, which I'd rewrite as waaw kay.(Waaw means 'yes' and kay is an emphatic particle.) It seems to me that if Wolof or some African language were in fact the source of OK, this would be a familiar fact from the days of slavery. In fairness, I should say I'm also dubious about the supposed Choctaw etymology, which is actually given in some (mainstream) English dictionaries. Choctaw has a sentence ending ookay (written oke in traditional missionary orthography) which can be added emphatically to almost any declarative. If you're not very familiar with the language and you listen to spoken Choctaw, you'll hear a lot of OK's. But it doesn't seem to me that Choctaw was really ever that widely spoken to have been the source for this word. It would be very interesting to hear if anyone has any historical evidence on this subject. There are certainly many English-internal suggested ety- mologies, as I imagine we'll be hearing. Pam Munro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-108. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-109. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 151 Subject: 3.109 Conferences Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 92 22:51:33 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: edited conference program 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 12:01:20 MST From: Sally_Rice@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca Subject: Int'l Conference on Spoken Lg. Processing; 2nd call for abstracts -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 92 22:51:33 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: edited conference program State University of New York at Buffalo CENTER FOR COGNITIVE SCIENCE CONFERENCE ON COGNITION AND REPRESENTATION April 3-5, 1992 INVITED SPEAKERS: Charles Fillmore, Jerry Fodor, Whitman Richards, Paul Smolensky, John F. Sowa TENTATIVE PROGRAM PAUL SMOLENSKY, Department of Computer Science, University of Colorado: "Connectionism, Compositionality, & The Explanation of Productivity" TIM VAN GELDER, Department of Philosophy, Indiana University: "Distributed Representation--An Outline" DAVID BANACH, Department of Philosophy, St. Anselm College" "Representing, Similarity, and the Storage of Information" ANN ROBYNS, Graduate School of Education, Harvard University "Primary and Mature Conceptual Structures--Evidence from Child Language" CHARLES FILLMORE, Department of Linguistics, University of California at Berkeley: "Representing Grammatical Knowledge as a Repertory of Constructions" JOHN KOUNIOS and PHILLIPS HOLCOMB, Department of Psychology, Tufts University: "Inferring Semantic-Memory Structure from Behavioral and Electrophysiological Measures" VINOD GOEL, Institute for Cognitive Science, University of California at Berkeley" "Specifying and Classifying Representational Systems: A Critique and Proposal for Cognitive Science" STEVEN HORST, Department of Philosophy, Wesleyan University: "Notions of Representation and the Diverging Interests of Philosophy and Empirical Science" JERRY A. FODOR, Department of Philosophy, Rutgers University, and the Graduate School, City University of New York: "Representation, Compositionality, and Analyticity" JOHN F. SOWA, IBM Thornasfjkafjk Educational Center: "Matching Logical Form to Linguistic Form" BARBARA L. SPEICHER, Communication Department, DePaul University: "Disentangling Conceptual and Linguistic Knowledge" BARBARA ABBOTT, Department of Linguistics, and LARRY HAUSER, Department of Philosophy, Michigan State University: "Natural Language and Thought" MICHAEL J. TARR, Department of Psychology, Yale University: "Behavioral and Computational Constraints in Human Shape Representation" K. N. LEIBOVIC, Department of Biophysical Sciences, SUNY Buffalo: "Brain Mechanisms for Perceptual Representation" WHITMAN RICHARDS, Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences, MIT "Is Perception for Real?" ========================================================================= Futher information may be obtained by writing to: The Center for Cognitive Science 652 Baldy Hall State University of New York at Buffalo Buffalo, NY 14260 email: dcp@cs.buffalo.edu Registration for the conference is $24, which includes lunch on Saturday. Dinner Friday night is $14. To register or make a dinner reservation, please send a check made out to SUNY Research Foundation/Representation Conference and send it to the address above. Organizing Committee: John T. Kearns, Department of Philosophy (dcp@cs.buffalo.edu) William J. Rapaport, Department of Computer Science (rapaport@cs.buffalo.edu) Erwin M. Segal, Department of Psychology (segal@cs.buffalo.edu) Leonard A. Talmy, Department of Linguistics and Director, Center for Cognitive Science (talmy@acsu.buffalo.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 12:01:20 MST From: Sally_Rice@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca Subject: Int'l Conference on Spoken Lg. Processing; 2nd call for abstracts 1992 International Conference on Spoken Language Processing (ICSLP) 12-16 October 1992, Banff Springs Hotel, Banff Nat'l Park, Alberta, Canada This conference is intended to serve as an international, interdisciplinary forum for the exchange of information on basic and applied research dealing with spoken language processing, especially the interaction between speakers and machines. The conference will feature plenary talks, commercial exhibits, and technical sessions with contributed papers (both oral and poster). Prospective authors are invited to propose papers in any of the following technical areas relevant to Spoken Language (SL): phonetics & phonology; dialects & speech styles in SL processing; production, perception, analysis, or synthesis of SL; speech coding & transmission; automatic speech recognition & understanding; analysis/synthesis of discourse; speaker identification/verification; neural networks & stochastic modelling for SL processing; hardware/ systems for SL processing; performance/evaluation and human factors; SL databases; hearing/speech impairments and aids; SL acquisition and learning. Submit four copies of a 400-word, 1-page abstract. It should begin with the title of the paper, name(s) and address(es) of the author(s) and the relevant technical area of the paper. The abstract should be received by *2 March 1992* at the following address: ICSLP - 92 Dept of Linguistics Univ of Alberta Assiniboia Hall Edmonton, Alberta T6G 2E7 CANADA fax: (403) 492-6145 email: userblde@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-109. ________________________________________________________________ of queries--lists of texts for classes, addresses, etymologies, etc.-- are best posted to the individual asking the question. Of course, so much depends on the specific query that we can only ask readers to use their own judgment. But as a general rule we will not in future accept responses to such queries for posting to the list. The individual who posted the original query is, however, strongly encouraged to post a summary to the list. We would urge them also to give some guidance to respondents by stating whether they intend to provide a summary or not. Anthony & Helen ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-110. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 198 Subject: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 11:54:58 PST From: scobbie@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Jim Scobbie) Subject: Re: popular linguistics 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 13:42 EST From: Mark H Aronoff Subject: language origins 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 13:48 CST From: Joe Stemberger Subject: Re: 3.101 Proto-World (Part 2) -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 11:54:58 PST From: scobbie@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Jim Scobbie) Subject: Re: popular linguistics On Fri, 31 Jan 92 rws@mbeya.research.att.com (Richard Sproat) noted: >In response to Andrew Carnie's point about what Scientific American >should be publishing that relates to modern linguistics, it should be >noted that back in 1983 they did publish a paper by Bickerton on >Creole languages and their relevance for the issue of innateness. This weekend I checked the new books shelf in a local shop and found two science-like books. One was a primer, a 'all you need to know about science but were afraid to ask' volume. It had two entries on language, there was a one page discussion on language and thought and a longer piece on the languages of the bible, the Aramaic dictionary project and such like things. I thought this was rather sad: surely there is more about the science of language which our well-rounded book-reader ought to know? The other book was called 'The third chimpanzee' (I think) and had a section about the origin of language. It asked howcome humans and the animal kingdom are so far apart in linguistic ability. After reviewing vervet vocabularly and holding out hope that natural animal languages (though simpler than ours) may perhaps exist, the author moved on to Creoles, and what that tells us about our genetic inheritance. Perhaps the author had read the Scientific American, or is the same. If the authors are different then we can learn something at once -- that popular science recycles itself, and if we can present our findings in such a way that they appeal to the public and are accurate, then linguistics would quickly bootstrap itself into popular culture. Such a culture would then be able to handle the more esoteric matters with which we occupy our time :-). Every day on the radio I hear 90 seconds of astronomical info put out by some university. Everytime I hear it I wonder if people would not be more interested in hearing a bit about language. Certainly *usage* columns and vocabulary spotting are perennial recreations. Why not something a little more abstract, something based on professionals' work? I'm sure the appetite is there, at all levels of interest. All we need are some appealing problems about language that we already know the answers to. -- James M. Scobbie: Dept of Linguistics, Stanford University, CA 94305-2150 scobbie@csli.stanford.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 13:42 EST From: Mark H Aronoff Subject: language origins State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY 11794-4376 Mark H Aronoff War and Peace Linguistics 632-7775 04-Feb-1992 01:15pm EST FROM: MARONOFF TO: Remote Addressee ( _linguist@tamvm1.tamu.edu) SUBJECT: language origins The lead article in the science section of today's (2/4/92) New York Times concerned the relation between Neanderthals and modern humans. I would guess that articles on human origins appear in the Times science section about four times a year, certainly more often than on just about any topic. If we compare this to the fraction of all scientists that comprises those working on human origins, we find that far more articles on this subject appear than we would expect if the two were proportional. What lesson do we learn from this very elementary exercise? It is that human origins is a fascinating topic to most people, certainly more fascinating than most scientific topics, which makes sense, since we are all, like the Jew of Venice, human. Sooooo, when someone starts to wax scientific about the origins of human language (which is, after all, the most salient of human activities/attributes), this is bound to attract attention, especially when the waxer is a respected scientist, as Cavalli-Sforza is (he also has a wonderful and impressive sounding name). The same goes for all the proto-world stuff. Note that I am not commenting on the scientific merits of these views, merely on the fact that the public is so interested in the matter. On the other hand, if some of these physical anthropologists are right, then modern humans have only been around for 40,000 years, which is bringing us into range of at least some respectable historical linguistic methods. Now I'll go back to my morphology, happy in the thought that even most linguists find that topic totally uninteresting (so that I get more paradigms to myself). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 13:48 CST From: Joe Stemberger Subject: Re: 3.101 Proto-World (Part 2) It's interesting that so many linguists don't like the work that attempts to get at Proto-World, and that many of us actually get angry about it. As Grover Hudson points out, such reactions may suggest to outside parties a dogmatic attempt to suppress radical opinions that disagrees with standard, dominant ideas. I think we need to point out clearly to others WHY we don't like it. It isn't that we necessarily think that the answers the Proto-World people have come up with are wrong, that they disagree with particulars that we all believe. OK, maybe some historical linguists have different ideas about language families, and there's some of that. But most of us don't work in historical, and we have no real axes to grind about what answers are right and what answers are wrong. The Proto-World IDEA is exciting and interesting. If it could be demonstrated, most of us would be happy with it. So why don't we like the Proto-World research? It's the methodology. Basically, we have no faith that the particular methods being used are reliable, that the answers that the researchers are getting are much more reliable that grouping language families at random. Maybe the Proto-World people are right in almost all details --- but we have no reason to think that that is likely. Grouping languages is trickier than grouping animals or plants. Chance similarities are far more of a problem when comparing languages than when comparing species. So much so that syntactic characteristics are viewed as unreliable guides to grouping languages even over comparatively short time periods. And you have to worry about borrowing between distantly related languages (but not between distantly related species); if you find words in common between two reconstructed proto-languages, it may point to a common ancestral language OR to a period of contact between two distinct ancestral languages, with a lot of lexical borrowing. Some "shared" words may be onomatopoeic. Some "shared" words are random similarities. People in other fields don't realize all these difficulties, or that the problem is so much harder than in biology. So, we get upset about Proto-World because of the methodology. Should we express outrage and displeasure about this to the rest of the world? Well, as linguists, we are in general subject to attack from other quarters claiming that our methodology is horrid. The bulk of researchers in Psychology and Communication Disorders are skeptical of results coming from theoretical linguistics, BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRUST OUR METHODOLOGY. They read any randomly chosen article on English syntax and find that it relies on the grammaticality or ungrammaticality of sentences of a sort that they don't even recognize as English. They don't agree with our notions of simplicity in phonology and hence are skeptical of the results (and are reinforced when they look at the analyses of English given by Chomsky & Halle, or by Halle & Mohanan, etc., which they view as crazy). Oh sure, linguistics may have somehow stumbled on the right answer, but they don't think that there's any reason to think that's true, given their complete lack of faith in our methodology. And the rapid rate of change in our theories suggests to many that we are wildly thrashing around in the dark, with no real idea about what is really going on in language. To be sure, some people in those fields don't share that skepticism. And they react well to research inspired by linguistics but using THEIR methodologies. Some of the ideas that get the LEAST enthusiastic response from these other disciplines are things like innateness and modularity, as linguists use them. (Which, of course, are the things which have been MOST OFTEN written up in the popular press.) I think that we need to make clear to the world at large that the methodology used for Proto-World studies in weak. But I think that we have just ignored such charges against linguistic methodology in general, and I don't know that we can speak from a solid position ourselves. ---joe stemberger -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-110. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-111. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 82 Subject: 3.111 Summary of Speech Errors Discussion; Thanks Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 10:57 EST From: Subject: Lang and Law 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 13:28:19 EST From: Ron Smyth Subject: Speech errors: summary -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 10:57 EST From: Subject: Lang and Law I write to thank all of you who responded to my call for papers & discussants for the Law and Society Ass'n Annual Meeting. I'll get back to you individually shortly. I'll also post the program for the sessions publicly shortly. Finally, one respondent reported that she had difficulty reaching me by e-mail because I left the "bitnet" part of the address off. I am sorry if that inconvenienced others. Full address: dumasb@utkvx.bitnet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 13:28:19 EST From: Ron Smyth Subject: Speech errors: summary This is a summary of responses to my request for information regarding public-access data bases of speech errors. Thanks to Ann Laubstein, Pier Marco Bertinetto, Vicki Fromkin, Kay Bock, Joe Stemberger, Penni Sibun, Liz Shriberg, Erwin Klock, Nancy Dray, Karen Ward, Aaron Halpern, and Malcolm Ross for responses. Several very generously offered access to their own corpora and/or made suggestions for Janet Shawyer's proposal concerning the representation of negation and tense. There appears to be no public data base available yet, but the following bits of information are encouraging: - Fromkin notes that she has submitted grant proposals to set up such a database using commerical software. It would contain her 15,000 errors, plus thousands more from Merrill Garrett and Stefanie Shattuck-Hufnagle. - Stemberger would like to put his 7,500 errors on the ChiLDES data base. - Stemberger also informs me that Susana del Viso and colleagues have put a Spanish corpus in computer-readable format. [Can anyone give me her address?] - Bertinetto offered access to a corpus of 3000 Italian errors collected by a student of his. Aaron Halpern made the interesting suggestion that, pending the appearance of a properly organized public data base, members of LINGUIST might consider establishing a file consisting of contributed corpora. He has volunteered to share the work involved in setting it up and sending it out to interested parties. I therefore propose some discussion on the list. First, is anyone will and able to contribute such a file? Secondly, what information must be provided with each contribution (e.g., how the errors were collected, how they are organized)? Third, would it be feasible to set this up as an ftp site, or would it be better to just post a list of people who are willing to share disks? I am curious to know how many lists of errors are out there, whether there are many languages represented, and whether people are collecting errors from children. Ron Smyth smyth@lake.scar.utoronto.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-111. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-112. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 77 Subject: 3.112 FYI: Computational Intelligence; Wordsort Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: 1 Feb 92 10:00 -0800 From: "T.Pattabhiraman" Subject: info missing from recent Linguist entry 2) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 92 09:51:07 EST From: will@franklin.com (William Dowling) Subject: Unix wordsort -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: 1 Feb 92 10:00 -0800 From: "T.Pattabhiraman" Subject: info missing from recent Linguist entry Computational Intelligence special issue on NLG in the recent Linguist-List entry 3.92 (Publications of Interest). Single copies of the special issue may be ordered @ US$17.50 per copy from: National Research Council of Canada Research Journals Subscriptions Office, Attn: Ms.Joan Hill Ottawa ON K1A 0R6 Cheques/money orders are to be made out to: National Research Council of Canada Please mention with your order: COMPUTATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, Special Issue on NLG, 7(4), 1991. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 92 09:51:07 EST From: will@franklin.com (William Dowling) Subject: Unix wordsort It is probably worth pointing out that the two proposals for "reverse sorting" a wordlist: (A) rev|sort|rev [contributed by tim@canon.co.uk (Tim F O'Donoghue)]; and (B) sort -r applied to a sorted, uniq'ed wordlist [contributed by Martin Wynne ] differ in substance. For example, if (A) is applied to a file that contains ax axa axb it returns axa axb ax while if (B) is applied to the same file, it returns axb axa ax The -r option for sort reverses sort's collating sequence; it has no effect on the sequence of characters within each word. The (A) method seems to be what the author of the awk script [Chris Culy ] had in mind by "reverse sort," but I would expect rev to run considerably faster than any equivalent awk script. Will Dowling (will@franklin.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-112. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-113. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 199 Subject: 3.113 SUNY Buffalo Conference on Cognition and Representation Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 92 21:49:12 EST From: talmy@acsu.buffalo.edu (len talmy) Subject: SUNY Buffalo Conference on "Cognition and Representation" -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 92 21:49:12 EST From: talmy@acsu.buffalo.edu (len talmy) Subject: SUNY Buffalo Conference on "Cognition and Representation" =========================================================================== PLEASE POST PLEASE POST PLEASE POST PLEASE POST PLEASE POST =========================================================================== State University of New York at Buffalo CENTER FOR COGNITIVE SCIENCE with funding from The Marvin Farber Memorial Fund The Department of Linguistics The Department of Psychology The Department of Computer Science. presents CONFERENCE ON COGNITION AND REPRESENTATION April 3-5, 1992 Center for Tomorrow, State University of New York at Buffalo INVITED SPEAKERS: Charles Fillmore Jerry Fodor Whitman Richards Paul Smolensky John F. Sowa TENTATIVE PROGRAM (Further information on lodging and registering for the Conference is also at the end of the Program) Friday, April 3, 1992 Afternoon Session, 1-4:45 pm PAUL SMOLENSKY, Department of Computer Science, University of Colorado: "Connectionism, Compositionality, & The Explanation of Productivity" TIM VAN GELDER, Department of Philosophy, Indiana University: "Distributed Representation--An Outline" DAVID BANACH, Department of Philosophy, St. Anselm College" "Representing, Similarity, and the Storage of Information" ANN ROBYNS, Graduate School of Education, Harvard University "Primary and Mature Conceptual Structures--Evidence from Child Language" Reception and Dinner, 5-7:30 pm Evening Session, 7:30-10 pm CHARLES FILLMORE, Department of Linguistics, University of California at Berkeley: "Representing Grammatical Knowledge as a Repertory of Constructions" Panel discussion among the day's participants Saturday, April 4, 1992 Coffee, juice, and rolls, 8:30 am Morning Session, 9-12:15 am JOHN KOUNIOS and PHILLIPS HOLCOMB, Department of Psychology, Tufts University: "Inferring Semantic-Memory Structure from Behavioral and Electrophysiological Measures" VINOD GOEL, Institute for Cognitive Science, University of California at Berkeley" "Specifying and Classifying Representational Systems: A Critique and Proposal for Cognitive Science" STEVEN HORST, Department of Philosophy, Wesleyan University: "Notions of Representation and the Diverging Interests of Philosophy and Empirical Science" JERRY A. FODOR, Department of Philosophy, Rutgers University, and the Graduate School, City University of New York: "Representation, Compositionality, and Analyticity" Lunch, 12:15-1:15 pm. Afternoon Session, 1:15-5:30 pm JOHN F. SOWA, IBM Thornasfjkafjk Educational Center: "Matching Logical Form to Linguistic Form" BARBARA L. SPEICHER, Communication Department, DePaul University: "Disentangling Conceptual and Linguistic Knowledge" BARBARA ABBOTT, Department of Linguistics, and LARRY HAUSER, Department of Philosophy, Michigan State University: "Natural Language and Thought" Panel discussion among the day's participants Sunday, April 5, 1992 Coffee, juice, and rolls, 8:30 am Morning Session, 9:00 am - 12:30 pm MICHAEL J. TARR, Department of Psychology, Yale University: "Behavioral and Computational Constraints in Human Shape Representation" K. N. LEIBOVIC, Department of Biophysical Sciences, SUNY Buffalo: "Brain Mechanisms for Perceptual Representation" WHITMAN RICHARDS, Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences, MIT "Is Perception for Real?" Panel discussion among the day's speakers and the invited speakers ========================================================================= Futher information may be obtained by writing to: The Center for Cognitive Science 652 Baldy Hall State University of New York at Buffalo Buffalo, NY 14260 email: dcp@cs.buffalo.edu Registration for the conference is $24, which includes lunch on Saturday. Dinner Friday night is $14. To register or make a dinner reservation, please send a check made out to SUNY Research Foundation/Representation Conference and send it to the address above. Organizing Committee: John T. Kearns, Department of Philosophy (dcp@cs.buffalo.edu) William J. Rapaport, Department of Computer Science (rapaport@cs.buffalo.edu) Erwin M. Segal, Department of Psychology (segal@cs.buffalo.edu) Leonard A. Talmy, Department of Linguistics and Director, Center for Cognitive Science (talmy@acsu.buffalo.edu) ========================================================================= ========================================================================= LODGING The following hotels and motels are located near the Amherst campus of the State University of New York at Buffalo. Hampton Inn, 10 Flint Rd., Amherst, NY (716) 869-4414. Ask for ``University Rate'', $53 single, $64 double. (these rates are approximate and are not guaranteed for April 1992) Holiday Inn, 1881 Niagara Falls Blvd., Amherst, NY 14150 (716) 691-8181 and (800) 465-4329. Ask for ``University Rate'', $59.00 single or double. Journey's End, 4400 Maple Rd., Amherst, NY (716) 834-2231 and (800) 668-4200. Ask for ``University Rate'', $45.65 sin- gle, $53.79 double. Marriott Inn, 1340 Millersport Hwy., Amherst, NY (716) 689- 6900 and (800) 228-9290. Ask for ``University Rate'', $73.00 single or double (these rates are approximate) Red Roof Inn, I-190 and Millersport Hwy., Amherst, NY (716) 689-7474 and (800) 843-7663. Ask for ``University Rate'', $43.95 single, $47.95 double Super 8 Motel, 1 Flint Rd., Amherst, NY (716) 688-0811 and (800) 843-1991. Ask for ``University Rate'', $36.79 single, $44.89 double. (these rates are not guaranteed for April 1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-113. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-114. Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 85 Subject: 3.114 Last Posting on Not Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: 3 Feb 92 11:11:00 EST From: "STEVE SEEGMILLER" Subject: The issue of retrogressive negation is settled. Not. 2) Date: 4 February 1992, 13:31:25 CST From: Geoffrey.S.Nathan.GA3662.at.SIUCVMB@tamvm1.tamu.edu Subject: ..Not 3) Date: 4 February 1992, 14:44:56 EST From: Nancy.Frishberg.NANCYF.at.YKTVMH.914/784-7654.IBM.Research.H1-B11.P.O.Box.704.Y orktown Subject: NOT -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: 3 Feb 92 11:11:00 EST From: "STEVE SEEGMILLER" Subject: The issue of retrogressive negation is settled. Not. I must admit that I paid only passing attention to the ealier discussion of the origin of post-clausal 'not', but my recollection is that a consensus was reached: that this usage originated, or at least was popularized, by 'Wayne's World' on Saturday Night Live. Imagine my surprise, then when I heard this very construction on Saturday Night Live on Feb. 1, 1992, in a very old rerun, one from the mid or late 1970's, with Steve Martin as guest host and the original cast (John Belushi, Gilda Radner, etc.) It was, in fact, Steve Martin who used the form in question, and it passed me by so quickly that I couldn't even retrieve the earlier portion of the sentence. It seems, then, that this construction made it onto national TV long before Wayne's World. Steve Seegmiller -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: 4 February 1992, 13:31:25 CST From: Geoffrey.S.Nathan.GA3662.at.SIUCVMB@tamvm1.tamu.edu Subject: ..Not Flash: first time in print! In today's `For better or for worse' cartoon strip (identified as 2-4) we find the following last two panels (preceding situation is left as an exercise for the reader): Son: Nothing's wrecked, Mom. We just ran over the Enjo's garbage! --bent your license plate a bit...guess this is our lucky day. Next panel (thinks, looking at furious mother) Not. Note that the author (Lynn) is a Canadian, probably, from internal evidence, from Toronto or some other Southern Ontario major city. Geoff Nathan, Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: 4 February 1992, 14:44:56 EST From: Nancy.Frishberg.NANCYF.at.YKTVMH.914/784-7654.IBM.Research.H1-B11.P.O.Box.704.Y orktown Subject: NOT How many other LINGUISTs heard Steve Martin in the role of "Chaz the Spaz, President of the Science Club" (on last week's re-broadcast of Saturday Night Live from 1978) show confidence in his own science project, by putting down the competition with, "I'm really worried about 'Dialing for Toast' -- NOT" ? Is this an earliest citing/sighting? Nancy Frishberg (nancyf@watson.ibm.com) Linguist List: Vol-3-114. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-115(a). Tue 04 Feb 1992. Lines: 211 Subject: 3.115(a) Last Posting on Y'all Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 19:57 EST From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR@msu.edu> Subject: 3.99 Queries: Visual Semiotics, 2) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1992 12:01:59 GMT-10:00 From: Fran Karttunen Subject: Re: 3.99 Queries: Visual Semiotics, HyperQual, Your All's 3) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 92 09:28 EST From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR@msu.edu> Subject: 3.104 Second Person Plural 4) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 9:50:11 CST From: Dennis Baron Subject: you (plural) 5) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 11:16:46 EST From: cowan@uunet.UU.NET (John Cowan) Subject: Re: 3.99 Your-All's 6) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 92 09:54:25 CST From: andy@xinu.tivoli.com Subject: Re: 3.99 Your All's -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 19:57 EST From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR@msu.edu> Subject: 3.99 Queries: Visual Semiotics, I am most definitely a your-all's' speaker (Louisville KY area). I always assumed that this was because us Outer Southerners' (or South Midlanders,' depending on which terminilogy you go for these days) have a tendency to have a tw0-syllable you-all' while our Deeper Southern siblings have a monosyllabic y'all') which ought to make differences in inflectional processes and the like. (In fact, differefcnes even show up in the spelling. Michael Montgomery has noticed, for example that the contracted form is often spelled ya'll' rather than y'all' in more Southern variewties. Dennis Preston -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1992 12:01:59 GMT-10:00 From: Fran Karttunen Subject: Re: 3.99 Queries: Visual Semiotics, HyperQual, Your All's In central Texas possessive "y'all's" is natural and high-frequency. The question is whether it is more natural for collectives such as "y'all's dog/car/house/etc." where you mean does this particular thing belong to you-pl as a family or living group or whatever. Although one would like to think y'all is consistently plural, in fact it's pretty often unambiguously addressed to an individual. I wonder whether "y'all" and its possessive "y'all's" when directed to one person are polite forms just as second-person plural pronouns are in Spanish, French, Finnish, etc. Fran Karttunen -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 92 09:28 EST From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR@msu.edu> Subject: 3.104 Second Person Plural Clearly missing from this list of ways to do 2nd person plural is the widely distributed yuns' ( you-uns'), a common Midlands form (as opposed to the Northern and Eastern youse' and South Midlands and Southern you-all' already noted. I amnot at all sure about the more delicate distribution of an unstressed or weakly stressed `yuz.' Yuz' speakers in the Midwest are not youse' speakers, and the positional distribution is ticklish. For example, Southern Illinois respondents of mine have yuz' as an almost clitic fomr in interrogatives ( Did yuz leave) -- with appropriate palatalization, but do not have (and reagrd as `funny' when presented with such constructions as I saw yuz.' A query of the DARE people of Wisconsin (who are a couply of volumes off from Y' might clear up this distriubution. Dennis Preston -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 9:50:11 CST From: Dennis Baron Subject: you (plural) I'd like to summarize what I think is coming out of the discussion of _you_ and its variants. The thesis, as I propose it, is this: _you_ is perceived by many English speakers to require an additional plural marker. Which means people either feel it is singular or not plural enough for certain emphatic situations (both of these may apply). And which results in such forms as _you all_ (or is it _y'all_?), _youse_, _you'uns_, and so on. And it produces less coalesced forms like _you guys_, as well as _you people_, _you + [Noun pl.]_. But we also get _youse guys_ which, if the above is correct, means that the second person plural pronoun is repeatedly coopted into the singular and thus new 2 pers. plurals need to be invented repeatedly to emphasize (or perhaps in the case of _y'all_ simply to mark) the plural. Which fits neatly with the pattern of the second person pronoun in EMn E where th- forms were replaced by y- forms. Is this making any sense? (It is difficult to construct an argument on email since going back and refining and rearranging isn;t the easiest thing in the world to do, as I've just inadvertently demonstra ted.) My suggestion that _y'all_ can function as a singular was met derisively by Michael Montgomery, who demands proof that I don't have (it was just a feeling, and I have heard it alleged by others). But I can attest singular _youse_ from cabbies and other NYorkers of my youth. Anyway, singular _y'all_ is suggested by the existence of the reinforced plural form _all y'all_. And singular _youse_ is suggested by the reinforced plural _youse guys_ which I have also heard noised about (no I don't have any cites, but I will begin collecting them now that I have something to say about them--sometimes you have to work backwards). The existence of _your all's_ and _y'all's_ may support this (is _your all's_ perhaps a hypercorrection of _y'all's_?). My original concern with _you guys_ had to do with its gender marking, or lack thereof (responses continue to be sharply divided on this) but I think now one reason it is becoming so common (despite our heightened consciousness of gender in language) is the felt need to reinforce or simply to mark the plurality of _you_. Whaddayouseguys think? -- debaron@uiuc.edu ____________ 217-333-2392 |:~~~~~~~~~~:| fax: 217-333-4321 Dennis Baron |: :| Dept. of English |: db :| Univ. of Illinois |: :| 608 S. Wright St. |:==========:| Urbana IL 61801 \\ """""""" \ \\ """""""" \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 11:16:46 EST From: cowan@uunet.UU.NET (John Cowan) Subject: Re: 3.99 Your-All's Michael Newman writes: > I just read this quote in today's NY Times (1/31 p.A12) > "'This is all inane, stupid and insulting, and I hope the American people jam > it down your-all's throat' Bob Slagle, the chairman of the Democratic Party in > Texas told reporters. > > Does anyone have any experience with this possessive of you-all? I can't > anyone making a possessive of you-guys or you-people like that. I suspect that Slagle said [j>lz], where [>] = open o, and the reporter attempted a conventional spelling. The transcription "y'all's" might have served better. (I am not myself a native yall-speaker, but I took advice from my wife, who is. She thought the singular "throat" was a bit odd, though; "throats" would have been more likely.) -- cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 92 09:54:25 CST From: andy@xinu.tivoli.com Subject: Re: 3.99 Your All's As a native you all/y'all speaker, I suspect that the quote from Bob Slagle ('This is all inane, stupid and insulting, and I hope the American people jam it down your-all's throat') is in fact a misprint or a misquote. "you all's" is perfectly grammatical as a second person plural posessive pronoun, but "your all's" would be doubly posessive. It's a distinction which I would not be surprised for a non-native to miss. I have on occasion heard double posessives, but have always perceived them as a sort of hypercorrection based on a confusion about which word should receive the posessive marker (when in doubt, do both). Andy Rogers Vox 512/794-9070 TIVOLI Systems Fax 512/794-0623 6034 W. Courtyard Drive, Suite 210 Austin, Texas 78730 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-115(a). ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-115(b). Wed 05 Feb 1992. Lines: 153 Subject: 3.115(b) NACCL4; Logic, Language and Information Summer School Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 92 20:43:12 EST From: NACCL4.Organizing.Committee@um.cc.umich.edu Subject: CORRECTED NACCL4 announcement 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 14:13:43 GMT From: Arnold D J Subject: For general distribution, please -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 92 20:43:12 EST From: NACCL4.Organizing.Committee@um.cc.umich.edu Subject: CORRECTED NACCL4 announcement The Fourth North American Conference on Chinese Linguistics (NACCL4) University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan May 8-10, 1992 Abstracts are invited for 20-minute talks followed by 10- minute discussions on all areas of Chinese linguistics. Send five copies of a one-page abstract. Do not identify yourself on the abstract, but attach a 3" x 5" card showing your name, address, telephone number, e-mail address (if available), affiliation, and the title of your paper. ABSTRACT DEADLINE: 1 March 1992 Address abstracts and inquiries to: NACCL4 Committee Program in Linguistics University of Michigan 1076 Frieze Building Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-1285 phone: (313) 763-3704 FAX: (313) 747-0157 e-mail: NACCL4@um.cc.umich.edu PLEASE DUPLICATE, CIRCULATE, AND POST. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 14:13:43 GMT From: Arnold D J Subject: For general distribution, please Essex, U.K., from August 17th - August 28th 1992. The School is organised by the European Foundation for Logic, Language and Information. Financial support is derived form a variety of sources, including the Commission of the European Communities through the ERASMUS programme, National Research Councils and industrial sponsors. A meeting of the European Foundation for Logic, Language and Information will be held during the School. The first Summer School took place in 1989 at the Rijksuniversiteit Groningen (NL). Subsequent hosts were the Katholieke Universiteit Leuven (B) and the Universitat des Saarlandes (D). The main focus of the programme is the interface between linguistics, logic and computation where it concerns the modelling of human linguistic and cognitive ability. The courses this year cover a variety of topics within six areas of interest: Logic, Computation, Language, Logic and Computation, Computation and Language, Language and Logic. They are cast at introductory or advanced level. Some topics support workshops providing an opportunity for in-depth discussion of issues at the forefront of research. There will also be a series of invited lectures. For further details, please contact: European Summer School in LLI University of Essex Wivenhoe Park COLCHESTER CO4 3SQ United Kingdom Tel: +44-206-872083 Fax: +44-206-872085 or +44-206-872788 e-mail: folli@essex.ac.uk Local organising Committee: Doug Arnold (Department of Language and Linguistics) Anne De Roeck (Department of Computer Science) Louisa Sadler (Department of Language and Linguistics) Courses and Workshops in: LOGIC AND COMPUTATION COMPUTATION & LANGUAGE Johan van Benthem Lisette Appelo Wil Dekkers Dale Gerdemann Sol Feferman Erhard Hinrichs Dov Gabbay Yves Kamp Nadim Obeid Martin Kay Allan Ramsay Jan Landsbergen Aarne Ranta John Lee Erik Sandewall Jan Odijk Jan Smith Mats Rooth Colin Stirling Remko Scha Goran Sundholm Gerhard Widmer Henk Zeevat LANGUAGE AND LOGIC LANGUAGE Gennaro Chierchia Anne Abeille Robin Cooper Elisabet Engdahl Jaap van der Does Dafydd Gibbon David Dowty Mark Hepple Jeroen Groenendijk Ruth Kempson Fritz Hamm Andras Kornai Jack Hoeksema Anthony Kroch Hans Kamp Alexis Manaster-Ramer Katalin Kiss William Marslen-Wilson Tanya Reinhart Glyn Morrill Eric Reuland Hans Uszkoreit Martin Stockhof LOGIC COMPUTATION Ian Hodkinson Klaus Ambros-Spies Rachel Lunnon Egon Boerger Maria Manzano Bruno Buchberger Uwe Moennich Alex Leitsch Michel Parigot Christoph Meinel Lorenzo Robbiano Joerg Siekmann Robert I. Soare Gerd Wechsung Paul Young -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-115(b). ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-116. Wed 05 Feb 1992. Lines: 94 Subject: 3.116 Queries: Cognitive science courses, Keyboard entry Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 21:17:32 CST From: ward@pico.ling.nwu.edu (Gregory Ward) Subject: teaching linguistics in introductory cognitive science courses 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 16:40:56 -0500 From: rogers@epas.utoronto.ca (Henry Rogers) Subject: keyboard entry -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 21:17:32 CST From: ward@pico.ling.nwu.edu (Gregory Ward) Subject: teaching linguistics in introductory cognitive science courses I need help. Next quarter I will be co-teaching a new course entitled "Introduction to Cognitive Science: Vision, Language, and Memory". This course is part of NU's new interdisciplinary major in Cognitive Science, and can be used to satisfy, in part, the College's natural science distribution requirement. It is a "B" level course (designed primarily for freshmen and sophomores) and has essentially no prerequisites. We expect between 80 and 100 students. I'll be covering (i.e. skimming) various topics on language (as well as some on, gulp, memory). The language topics currently include: phonology, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, psycholinguistics (language processing), computational linguistics, language acquisition, and neurolinguistics. Each topic will be covered in a one-hour (!) lecture. (I know this verges on the absurd, but such is my mission.) I'd very much (and very soon) like to hear from others who have taught similar cognitive science courses (or parts thereof) in the past. What text(s) and/or supplement readings have you used and with what success? (A straight linguistics text won't work.) Also, we have access to an IBM 386 that can be set up in the classroom if anyone knows of cute computational demos or models that would be appropriate (and available for classroom use). Any ideas or suggestions would be deeply appreciated. (Even an old syllabus would be great!) Please respond directly to me at the address below, and I will post a summary of the responses. Thanks, Gregory Ward ward@pico.ling.nwu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 16:40:56 -0500 From: rogers@epas.utoronto.ca (Henry Rogers) Subject: keyboard entry An annoying problem for linguists using Macintoshes is that, although there are a number of phonetic fonts around, we are at the mercy of the font designer as to how the symbols are laid out on the keyboard. One design that I have seen had 'crossed two' (an old IPA symbol for [dz]; I have never seen it used) in a handy place, but relegated the raised h for aspiration to a code requiring a two-stroke entry. I am considering working on a keyboard resource editor which would allow users to rearrange their keyboard to their heart's content without changing the ascii codes. However, I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Is there something already available which would do this? ResEdit is too powerful (dangerous) for most of us. I had a version of MacKeymeleon some years ago, which I found fragile then, never mind with system 7.0. I would appreciate replies sent directly to me at rogers@epas.utoronto.ca Henry Rogers Dept. of Linguistics University of Toronto Toronto, Ont. M5S 1A1 Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-116. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-117. Thu 06 Feb 1992. Lines: 227 Subject: 3.117 Proto-World I Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 16:09:53 WST From: harrison@cs.uwa.oz.au (Sheldon Harrison) Subject: Proto-world 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 21:16:21 HST From: Phil Bralich Subject: Protoworld 3) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 12:11:00 +0100 From: Swann Philip Subject: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics 4) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 21:49:26 CST From: Nancy L. Dray Subject: The Very Model for Historical Comparison... -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 16:09:53 WST From: harrison@cs.uwa.oz.au (Sheldon Harrison) Subject: Proto-world Just in case anyone out there is voting on the issue, I would like to second Dan Everett's response to Andrew Carnie. Everett has said more or less what I wanted to. shelly harrison -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 21:16:21 HST From: Phil Bralich Subject: Protoworld The discussion on Proto-World seems to be unaware of or has neglected to mention that Derek Bickerton's boo _Language and Species_ presents a convincing argument about the origin of language that is written in a style that is quite readable for the general public. In it he discusses issues pertinent to the Proto-World debate. His discuccion of child language acquisition also provides a convincing argument that the actual mechanism for the production of language is quite a bit simpler than current theories of syntax. Phil Bralich University of Hawaii bralich@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 12:11:00 +0100 From: Swann Philip Subject: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics This seems like a good topic to have a substantial discussion about. Having just picked up the Cavalli-Sforza article, however, I am puzzled. He doesn't talk about "Proto-World" at all - I can't find any claims regarding monogenesis of language or the possibility of reconstructing ur-speak. Could someone out there begin by giving a quick summary (with references) of Proto-World? Maybe I've missed the point completely, but isn't the Chomskian (re)construction of Universal Grammar an attempt to define the syntax of ur-speak (with clear reference to the Indo-European model)? Philip Swann FPSE-TECFA University of Geneva -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 21:49:26 CST From: Nancy L. Dray Subject: The Very Model for Historical Comparison... Since the topic of Proto-World, etc., has come up once again on Linguist, and apparently some new articles have appeared, I can no longer resist the urge to post the following parody lyrics; they are, after all, designed not entirely as frivolous entertainment but also to comment, albeit satirically, on certain trends and recent publicity. I wrote this last spring to entertain a gathering of University of Chicago linguists (Goodspeed Day, for those familiar with our local customs), and I later sent a copy, along with a brief letter concerning the value and continued vitality of traditional methodologies, to The Atlantic Monthly in response to an article by Robert Wright ("Quest for the Mother Tongue," April 1991) which was part of the last media blitz. Though letter and song never appeared in Atlantic, they did appear in California Linguistic Newsletter (Vol. XXII, No. 2, which along with the previous issue also contained letters written by other linguists). The song will also appear in University of Chicago Working Papers in Linguistics 7. I am indebted to Eric P. Hamp and David Testen for some lines, some rhymes, and much encouragement and inspiration (see additional acknowledgments in forthcoming UCWPL version). I'd be delighted to receive comments, extra verses, and other linguistic parodies if anyone cares to send any. Likewise any suggestions of where this might be published (if it should be). You are welcome to pass this on, perform it, etc., as long as it is appropriately attributed to me and the copyright information and some way of contacting me are included. I would also very much appreciate hearing word of the song's travels--and a thousand blessings (plus reimbursement) to anyone who sends me a tape of this actually being performed! If you would like a nicely printed copy (i.e., including the typographical flourishes I had to take out for e-mail), please contact me. Thanks! Here goes: _The Very Model for Historical Comparison_ (Copyright 1991 Nancy L. Dray) (to be sung to the tune of Gilbert & Sullivan's "Model of a Modern Major-General") I have the very model for historical comparison, For reconstructing languages when data is as rare as in The case of pre-Nostratic (or perhaps it's post-Atlantean-- I always have preferred a task whose compass is Gargant'ian); For I know all the mythologic functions Dumezilian, And I can trace our species back to ancestors reptilian; In all, I seek the broadest view, for by my ideology The details are just residue left over from typology. Chorus: The details are just residue left over from typology, The details are just residue left over from typology, The details are just residue left over from typo-polo-gy. Thus for all forms of pedantry I offer up this medicine: The weighty methodology of old we'll have to jettison. To link the tongues of everyone from Hottentot to Saracen, We'll need another model for historical comparison. Chorus: To link the tongues of everyone from Hottentot to Saracen, We'll need another model for historical comparison. The sticklers and the "splitters" sitting in their ivory edifice Must take the blame for having let the Russians get ahead of us, For if they are so quick to pale when some small detail menaces, How do they ever hope to reach linguistic monogenesis? While they're immersed in Lycian and Lydian and Luwian, I've reconstructed 'water' terms ante- and post-diluvian! I simply use the handbooks that the forms are predigested in And waste no time on learning every language they're attested in. Chorus: He wastes no time on learning every language they're attested in, He wastes no time on learning every language they're attested in, He wastes no time on learning every language they're attested-tested in. So many forms share elements (and meanings if you think a bit); Morphology's impediments I set aside or shrink to fit. Indeed I am quite certain (although others seem to vary some) Mine is the very model for historical comparison. Chorus: He really is quite certain (although others seem to vary some) This is the very model for historical comparison. Now some may say we "lumpers" are just megalocomparative, Displaying our propensity for hyperbolic narrative, But who can match our progress, going speedier and speedier-- Just look at the attention we've been getting in the media(r)! Where fainter hearts are loath to tread, that's where you'll find me wandering, Assembling the parallels the "splitting" clan are squandering; I'm keen to bag the languages they always thought akin to none By stepping 'round the finer points and joining them all into one. Chorus: He's stepping 'round the finer points and joining them all into one, He's stepping 'round the finer points and joining them all into one, He's stepping 'round the finer points and joining them all into into one. There's Basque and Burushaski, let us not forget Sumerian, Or scratchings unidentified on tablets antiquarian; I let no language go astray--'twould just be too embarrassin' And mar my perfect model for historical comparison. Chorus: He lets no language go astray--'twould just be too embarrassin' And mar his perfect model for historical comparison. Nancy L. Dray Department of Linguistics University of Chicago 1010 E. 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637 e-mail: dray@sapir.uchicago.edu P.S. In my letter to Atlantic, I followed the song with this brief comment: I sincerely hope that the "weighty methodology of old" will not be jettisoned, for without this ballast historical-comparative linguistics quickly drifts beyond the reach of attested evidence. Far from being a stodgy or barren enterprise, traditional historical-comparative linguistics has demonstrated that bold innovation is not incompatible with methodological rigor. Indeed, it is the scrupulous accounting for detail that often leads to the most startling, unexpected, and far-reaching discoveries, for the demands of methodology both force and enable one to escape one's own preconceptions. NLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-117. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-118. Thu 06 Feb 1992. Lines: 139 Subject: 3.118 Proto-World II Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 16:59:57 -0600 From: "Michael Kac" Subject: Re: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics 2) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 92 00:34:25 EST From: "Ryan Amptmeyer, undergrad at Purdue" Subject: Re: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics 3) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 92 20:38:43 CST From: RYATES@CMSUVMB.bitnet Subject: Front Page News -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 16:59:57 -0600 From: "Michael Kac" Subject: Re: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics The recent discussion, initiated by Manaster-Ramer, about Proto-World theories and related issues prompts the following: I think Mark Aronoff is right when he attributes the popular fascination with historical linguistics (or at least with TALK about historical linguistics) to the understandably high level of interest in human origins, prehistory and re- mote history. It might also be worth pointing out that of the main branches of linguistics, historical linguistics/philology is perhaps unique in being addressed to questions that the lay person can immediately understand. (Whether the typical layperson understands the ANSWERS is another matter entirely!) There is also an obvious element of detective work involved in such things as reconstruction; add that to the similar appeal of decipherment and we are talking sexy here. By the same token, I'm skeptical about the prospect of interesting a sub- stantial segment of the lay public in the kinds of issues that dominate the linguistic mainstream today. I say that in part on the basis of having taught enough undergraduates to be able to say with confidence that the mere mention of the word *language* (let alone *grammar*) is almost always enough to produce terminal zoneout. But even among those to whom questions having to do with language are of some interest, the tendency is not to want to deal with dull, dry stuff like recursive rules and underspecification but with exciting stuff, like how language and culture interact, how people are seduced by propoganda, etc. If it's any comfort to the folks out in LINGUISTland, our sister disciplines of philosophy and psychology are in much the same boat we are. We want our philosophers to teach us how to lead good and noble lives and they want to explain referential opacity; we want our psychologists to give us insight into our thoughts and feelings, and they want to study rats. A parting thought. The one linguist with name recognition throughout the educated lay public is Chomsky; but what the educated lay public is interes- ted in, language-wise, isn't what Chomsky's interested in. You figure it. Michael Kac -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 92 00:34:25 EST From: "Ryan Amptmeyer, undergrad at Purdue" Subject: Re: 3.110 Proto-World and Popular Linguistics I have an uncanny interest in overgeneralizations, and I think I can contribu te something worthwhile here. All citations made in this submission will be fro m Thelwall, Robin: "Linguistics and Prehistory in an African Perspective: Curre nt Methods and Argumentation" from Bjarkman, P.,and Raskin, V.; The Real World Linguist: Linguistic Applications in the 1980's (Norwood, NJ: Ablex 1986). Please forgive me if any info contained herein is old hat. Anthropologists don 't dig Proto-World theories, believing instead that there were twice as many la nguages way-back-when as there are now, which is a valid theory considering the rate at which languages are disappearing now. However, I have bumbled across a n idea from a grad student that there could have been no Proto-World because ho mo sapiens had to have evolved in several different places at once. If this was indeed the case, then homo sapiens would be several different species. If I ma y get lost in analogy-land for a moment, consider the virtual absence of marsup ials on six continents. I believe it was the Soviets who developed the Nostrotic theory trying to link Indo-European with a hodgepodge of East Asian languages in a desperate attempt to place themselves at the center of the universe. According to Thelwall, "His torical Linguistics, as we know it, is of course built on the exegesis of Indo- European as THE paradigm." (p. 323) This study cites Ehret (1979), Bender (1975 ), and Diakonoff (1965) as being in agreement regarding a theory that traces th e "Proto-Afroasiatic" languages back to an area in present-day northeastern Sud an, closer to the Nile Delta than Olduvai Gorge. The problem with historical li nguistic attempts at this ambitious Proto-World scheme is that many researchers are barking up the wrong tree; they are looking too far North. Thelwall (344) supports the theory that Berber, Chad, Egyptian, South Cushitic, Omotic, Cushit ic, and Semitic languages originated from the Proto-Afroasiatic cradle. Thelwall expresses awareness of the shotgun methodology of diachronic linguist ics and proposes criteria for creating and evaluating the empirical extrapolati on of statistical cognate data to similarity matricies. Please feel free to arg ue with me. I'm dying to say more but the computer keeps deleting the second ha lf of my response.So when you think "Proto-World", think Proto-Afroasiatic. ...amptmeye@vm.cc.purdue.edu -or- ampymeye@sage.cc.purdue.edu -or- pur.cc.vm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 92 20:38:43 CST From: RYATES@CMSUVMB.bitnet Subject: Front Page News In the discussion about Proto-world, several comments addressed the issue of how linguistic issues are reported in the popular press. On Friday, January 31, 1992, on the FRONT page of the Kansas City Star was the following headline: Accent is born early in baby's life, study says. (reporter: Boyce Rensberger credited to: Washington Post) The article summarizes the findings of research reported in Science. It quotes Kuhl of the University of Washington, who was the leader of the research team. I have not yet consulted the article. As reported in the newspaper, the study shows that six month year old babies are able to distinguish phonemic differences. Notice that the headline suggests that production of an accent it early. I wonder how many times a year research in linguistics appears on the front page of any newspaper. It must have been a slow news day. :) Bob Yates Central Missouri State University -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-118. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-119. Fri 07 Feb 1992. Lines: 190 Subject: 3.119 Conference: Hungarian Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 08:06:00 EST From: "Pleh Csaba (812)855 20 45" Subject: The structure of Hungarian: Contemporary Approaches -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 08:06:00 EST From: "Pleh Csaba (812)855 20 45" Subject: The structure of Hungarian: Contemporary Approaches Dear Colleague, The Hungarian Chair and the Hungarian Studies Program at the Department of Uralic and Altaic Studies of Indiana University organizes a conference on the topic of The structure of Hungarian: Contemporary approaches. Please find an enclosed preliminary program as an invitation to the conference. We would like linguists around and out of campus to know about the conference so please let your colleagues be informed. Two of the participants from Hungary. Professors. Katalin E. Kiss and Ferenc Kiefer will be on campus during the entire week. She is an excellent syntactician doing work on the configurationality issue in Hungarian, and he is linguist with a broad spectrum, of research recently working on mood and aspect in Hungarian. If you would like to meet them or to organize separate colloquia for them, please contact me. Please feel free to contact me concerning any other information or help you may need either at my home phone (812-855-2045), by Fax (812-855-75-00), or by email (cpleh@ucs.indiana.edu). My office is in Goodbody Hall, Uralic and Altaic Department. Looking forward to see you at the conference, sincerely yours: (Csaba Plh) Gyrgy R nki Hungarian Chair Professor The structure of Hungarian: Contemporary Approaches Bloomington, April 3 to 5, 1992 Preliminary program April 3d, Friday afternoon: arrival to the Union, registration. Between 5. P.M. and 7 P.M. Allow 90 minutes to the Union from Indianapolis airport April 3d, 7 P.M.: WELLCOMING DINNER, MEMORIAL UNION April 4th, Morning: SYNTAX 8.30 - 9.00: Katalin . Kiss Institute for Linguistics HAS, Budapest On Hungarian sentence structure 9.00 -9.30: Ferenc Kiefer Institute for Linguistics HAS, Budapest Hungarian compound structure and the thematic hierarchy 9.30-10.00: Farrell Ackermann University of California, San Diego Predicate formation in Hungarian and Vogul: Causatives 10.00-10.30: COFFEE BREAK 10.30-11.00: Anna Szabolcsi University of California Los Angeles Subordination across categories: Articles and complementizers 11.00-11.30 : Zolt n Szab" MIT Cambridge Presupposition and possessive construction 11.30-12.00: Donka Farkas University of California, Santa Cruz Mood choice in complement clauses 12.00-12.30: Katalin Radics Los Angeles Nominal sentences in Hungarian 12.30:13.00: Mikl"s Trknczy MIT Cambridge V and zero alternations in Hungarian 13.00 - 14.00: LUNCH AT THE UNION Saturday Afternoon: PHONOLOGY AND MORPHOLOGY 14.00-14.30: Robert Hetzron University of California, Santa Barbara The Hungarian songstress 14.30-15.00: Robert V g" City University of NY Compensatory lengthening in Hungarian: Implications for moraic phonology 15.00-15.30: Gyula Dcsy Indiana University, Bloomington Gombocz's structural view of the Hungarian objective conjugation 15.30-16.00: Carol Rounds Columbia University The direct object in Hungarian from a Finno-Ugric perspective 16.00-16.30: COFFEE BREAK 16.30-17.00: George Fowler Indiana University, Bloomington Positive and negative case assignment in Hungarian 17.00-17.30: Andr s Kornai Stanford University Frequency in morphology 17.30 -18.00: Brian MacWhinney Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh Connectionist models of the learning of Hungarian morphophonology DINNER: AT THE UNION 20.00-23.00: Reception in the home of Csaba Plh, McNutt Building, Apt. 304 (Fee lane) SUNDAY MORNING SEMANTIC ISSUES 9.00-9.30 : Chris Beckwith Indiana University, Bloomington Classifiers in Hungarian 9.30-10.00: Jeff Harlig Indiana University, Bloomington Accounting for tense shift in Hungarian fiction 10.00-10.30: Martha Nyikos Indiana University, Bloomington An overview of a syntactic and semantic interrelationship of Hungarian verbs and their prefixes 10.30-11.00: Csaba Plh Indiana University, Bloomington On the psycholinguistics of Hungarian prefixes 11.00-11.30: COFFEE BREAK APPLIED AND HISTORICAL ASPECTS 11.30-12.00: Leslie Barratt Indiana State University, Terre Haute Mismatches in Hungarian and English word meanings: problems for language learners that dictionaries fail to solve 12.00-12.30: Mikl"s Kontra Attila J"zsef University, Szeged On an on-going syntactic merger in Hungarian 12.30-13.00: Julius Nyikos Washington and Jefferson College A linguistic reassessment of Hungarian orthography with a view toward critical reform 13.00-14.00: LUNCH AT THE UNION, DEPARTURE The structure of Hungarian: Contemporary Approaches Bloomington, April 3 to 5, 1992 Preliminary list of participants Ackermann, Farrell University of California San Diego Barratt,Leslie Indiana State U, Terre Haute,IN Bayerle, Gustav Indiana University, Bloomington Beckwith, Chris Indiana University, Bloomington Dcsy, Gyula Indiana University, Bloomington Farkas, Donka University of California Santa Cruz Fowler, George Indiana University, Bloomington Hetzron, Robert University of California Santa Barbara Harlig, Jeff Indiana University, Bloomington Kiefer, Ferenc Institute for Linguistics, Budapest Kiss, E. Katalin Institute for Linguistics, Budapest Kontra, Miklos Institute for Linguistics, Budapest Kornai, Andr s Stanford University MacWhinney, Brian Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh Nyikos, Julius Washington and Jefferson College Nyikos, Marta Indiana U., Bloomington Plh, Csaba Indiana University, Bloomington Radics, Katalin Los Angeles, CA Rounds, Carol Columbia University Sebeok, Thomas Indiana University, Bloomington Sinor, Denis Indiana University, Bloomington Szab", Zolt n MIT Cambridge, MA Szabolcsi, Anna University of California Los Angeles Trknczy, Mikl"s MIT, Cambridge, MA V g", Robert City University of NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-119. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-120. Fri 07 Feb 1992. Lines: 159 Subject: 3.120 FYI: New MA Degree, Publications, Papers Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 92 11:28:24 GMT From: Li.Wei@newcastle.ac.uk Subject: New MA degree 2) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 12:46:37 +0100 From: noel@BANRUC60.bitnet Subject: N.E.L.L. Publications 3) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1992 15:25:11 GMT From: DEVLIN_B@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU Subject: Call for papers: IJSL special issue -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 92 11:28:24 GMT From: Li.Wei@newcastle.ac.uk Subject: New MA degree The Department of Speech of the University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Great Brita in, is launching a new Master of Arts (MA) degree in Sociolinguists and Biling ualism, starting October, 1992. The course is nine months in length (October to end of June) and is composed of modules covering areas such as structures a nd varieties of present-day English, sociolinguistics, bilingualism and cross- cultural communication, and field linguistics methodology. The course is asses sed by a dissertation of between 5,000 to 10,000 words. Applicants should have a good first degree in a relevant subject. Enquiries: Professor Lesley Milroy (course tutor) Department of Speech University of Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 7RU Great Britain Telephone: +44 91 222 7388 Fax: +44 91 261 1182 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 12:46:37 +0100 From: noel@BANRUC60.bitnet Subject: N.E.L.L. Publications The following publications are now available from the Nottingham English Language and Linguistics Research Group: In the series 'Monographs in Systemic Linguistics': Gerald Parsons: A Comparative Study of the Writing of Scientific Texts Focusing on Cohesion and Coherence. (8.75 Pounds Sterling) Kevin Nwogu: Discourse Variation in Medical Texts - Schema, Theme and Cohesion in Professional and Journalistic Accounts. (9.75 Pounds Sterling) Clara Calvo: Power Relations in Shakespeare - A Discourse Stylistics Approach to Dramatic Dialogue. (8.25 Pounds Sterling) In the series 'Reprints in Systemic Linguistics': Margaret Berry: An Introduction to Systemic Linguistics - Volume 1: Structures and Systems. (8.50 Pounds Sterling) Margaret Berry: An Introduction to Systemic Linguistics - Volume 2: Levels and Links. (8.50 Pounds Sterling) Michael Hoey: On the Surface of Discourse. (8.50 Pounds Sterling) To order copies write to: Hilary Hillier Dept. of English Studies The University of Nottingham University Park Nottingham NG7 2RD England Fax: +44 602 420 825 Payment should be made by (1) a personal cheque drawn on a British bank, (2) a Eurocheque or (3) a postal money order, all payable in Sterling. All other cheques or money orders are acceptable only if the equivalent of 5 Pounds is added to cover bank charges. Cheques or money orders should be made payable to "Univ. of Nottingham/OPSL". -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1992 15:25:11 GMT From: DEVLIN_B@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU Subject: Call for papers: IJSL special issue A forthcoming special issue of the International Journal of the Sociology of Language is being devoted to sociolinguistic research on Aboriginal languages. The co-editors of this issue will be Paul Black, Isaac Brown, Brian Devlin and Stephen Harris. Contributions are invited on any of the following topics: A Language and Aboriginal identity B Language and Aboriginal power C Language and Aboriginal education D Aboriginal language maintenance/revival/shift E Language and Aboriginal literacy F Language and justice in the courts for Aboriginal people Concise research reports will be particularly welcome but reviews of current books, surveys of the literature etc. will also be considered. Potential contributors are asked to submit a title and abstract by 6 March 1992 to Dr B C Devlin, IJSL Special Issue Co-editor, Faculty of Education, Northern Territory University, PO Box 40146, Casuarina NT 0811; fax (089) 46 6151; phone: 46 6155; e-mail: devlin_b@darwin.ntu.edu.au. A first draft of the submitted paper will need to be received in New York by 5 June 1992 to be considered for inclusion. Please send contributions to Dr B C Devlin, IJSL Special Issue Co-editor, c/- Professor Joshua Fishman, Ferkauf Graduate School of Psychology, 1300 Morris Park Avenue, Mazer Building 5th floor, Bronx New York 10461 USA; fax: (212) 430 3252 Hard-copy submissions should be double-spaced. Contributions on disk (MS Word-Macintosh) will be gratefully received. B C Devlin Faculty of Education Northern Territory University Phone (until 4 April) W (089) 46 6155, H (089) 81 4807 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-120. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-121. Fri 07 Feb 1992. Lines: 137 Subject: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 10:08:54 EST From: Ron Smyth Subject: Re: 3.106 Is, is, Finite-Sets 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 12:49 GMT From: "NAME " William Marslen-Wilson "" Subject: Is, is, .... 3) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 9:38:44 +0800 (SST) From: A_DENCH@FENNEL.CC.UWA.OZ.AU Subject: Australian 'but' 4) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 12:53:44 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: A Parsing Challenge -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 10:08:54 EST From: Ron Smyth Subject: Re: 3.106 Is, is, Finite-Sets Steve Helmreich asks about "All's I know is..." I too used this until I made a dialect change in my late teens. I have never 'felt' that it was a contracted 'is'; I even remember wondering why I said it, and knowing that it wasn't standard. I don't seem to have any intuitions about it anymore, so it's hard to think of relevant argument for and against copula status, but maybe the fact that you can't (?) say "X is all's we're doing" at least shows that it's not just a dialect variant of 'all', i.e. a plural marker or whatever. Comments from native speakers? Ron Smyth smyth@lake.scar.utoronto.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 12:49 GMT From: "NAME " William Marslen-Wilson "" Subject: Is, is, .... Students of the "Is is" phenomenon in English might be interested in the following fragment that was circulating in The Netherlands in the early 1980's: CONTRIBUTION TO TENSE-LOGIC Op een bij Er was een bij te's-Gravenhage Die antwoord wist op alle vragen Toen men hem moeilijk genoeg "Wat was was eer was was was?" vroeg werd hij winnaar van de quiz met "Eer was was was was was is." This was attributed to Kees Stip. Apparently, with the right intonational bracketing, the final sequence of five "was" and one "is" is quite acceptable. For the exact interpretation I'd have to appeal to some reader whose Dutch is less rusty than mine. Of course, not all those "was" may have the same status. William Marslen-Wilson Birkbeck College University of London -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 9:38:44 +0800 (SST) From: A_DENCH@FENNEL.CC.UWA.OZ.AU Subject: Australian 'but' As a native speaker of a 'but' dialect (West Australian English), I might make a few qualifying comments oin previous postings. It seems reasonably clear to me that the BUT tag is most common to the West coast of this continent. It was wierd enough when I moved to Canberra in the late seventies that natives there would comment on the expression with some regularity. I haven't seen the "Fringe Dwellers" movie either but know that the book describes life in the small Western Australian town of Geraldton. BUT is not particular to the Aboriginal population, but I suspect the Aboriginal actors in that movie were Western Australians, while other actors were not necessarily. The BUT is certainly more common in country areas (where I grew up) than in the big smoke. Yes, But is similar to THOUGH, though I am sure it can be used apart from a particular response to a question or comment from an interlocuter, and I don't have an intuition that THOUGH can be used in the same way. As a final comment, the construction is so pervasive in Western Australia, especially among children, that it influences other languages. The following example is from a six year old French-WAEnglish bilingual. He had lost the straw from a covered cup. Mum asks why he can't keep an eye on things: J'ai pas perdu le couverde, MAIS. Similar fWAnglais constructions abound. I'm not going to tell the Academie but. Alan Dench Centre for Linguistics University of Western Australia Nedlands, WA 6009. A_DENCH@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 12:53:44 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: A Parsing Challenge Here's a good test of getting your antecedents straight: "While in Raleigh, Mr. Sulzberger Jr. married Gail Gregg, whom he met while visiting his mother in Topeka, who had moved there and which was Ms. Gregg's hometown." - Alex Jones, "Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Passes Times Publisher's Post to Son," New York Times, 17 January 1992, p. A19. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-121. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-122. Sat 08 Feb 1992. Lines: 185 Subject: 3.122 FYI: ALLC/ACH Conference, Humanities List Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 10:29 GMT From: STUART@vax.oxford.ac.uk Subject: ALLC/ACH Conference, 5-9 April 1992, Oxford 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 12:36:23 +0000 From: gburnage@natcorp.ox.ac.uk (Gavin Burnage) Subject: New Humanities Postgraduate Mailing List -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 10:29 GMT From: STUART@vax.oxford.ac.uk Subject: ALLC/ACH Conference, 5-9 April 1992, Oxford ASSOCIATION FOR LITERARY AND LINGUISTIC COMPUTING ASSOCIATION FOR COMPUTERS AND THE HUMANITIES 1992 JOINT CONFERENCE ALLC-ACH92 5-9 April 1992, Christ Church, Oxford, England This conference is the major annual forum for literary, linguistic and humanities computing. Its focus is on the development of new computing methodologies for research and teaching in the humanities, on the development of significant new materials and tools for humanities research, and on the application and evaluation of computing techniques in humanities subjects. Recent conferences have been held in Toronto, Canada (1989), Siegen, Germany (1990) and Tempe, Arizona (1991). The 1992 conference features keynote papers by Bernard Que/mada, Director of the Tre/sor de la Langue Francaise and Yorick Wilks, Director of the Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University and Trinity Hall, Cambridge. Over sixty papers and panel sessions have been selected for presentation on all areas of literary, linguistic and humanities computing. Multidisciplinary approaches such as text encoding, image analysis and hypermedia feature in a number of presentations. All papers have been evaluated by a panel of reviewers, on the basis of both the computing methodology and the relevance and application of that methodology to research and teaching in the humanities. Accommodation and meals have been reserved for the conference in Christ Church which is one of Oxford University's oldest and best-known colleges. It is situated in the centre of the city, but overlooks Christ Church Meadow and the River Thames. The conference will run from dinner on Sunday 5 April until lunch on Thursday 9 April. There will be a reception in St Cross College, Oxford on the evening of 5 April and a banquet in Christ Church's magnificent Tudor hall on the evening of 8 April. Most rooms in Christ Church are single study bedrooms, all of which are modernized. A limited number of 'double sets' comprising two bedrooms and a sitting room are also available. Oxford is an hour from London and from Heathrow Airport and is also close to Stratford-on-Avon and the Cotswolds, a beautiful area of English countryside. There is a frequent bus service from Heathrow to Oxford and good transport from Gatwick airport, which is about two hours away. Car parking is generally difficult in Oxford and it is regretted that none will be available at Christ Church. There is a multi-storey car park nearby, but delegates are strongly encouraged to travel to Oxford by train or bus. The city centre is compact with colleges, tourist attractions, bookstores etc all within easy walking distance of each other and Christ Church. Conference fees ALLC/ACH member Non-member Registration fee & full board #295/$590 #325/$650 Registration fee & meals #225/$450 #255/$510 Full board for partners #250/$500 #280/$560 Unwaged Registration only #35/$70 #65/$130 Registration fee & full board #155/$310 #185/$370 Registrations after 15th February will be surcharged #30/$60 #185/$370 Full board includes bed & all meals from 5-9 April. All prices except for 'Registration fee only' include the Conference Banquet. Please note that no registrations will be accepted after March 23rd 1992. Please address all enquiries to Katy Cubitt ALLC-ACH92 Centre for Humanities Computing Oxford University Computing Service 13 Banbury Road Oxford OX2 6NN England Telephone: 44-865-273221 or (from within UK) 0865-273221 Fax: 44-865-273275 or (from within UK) 0865-273275 E-mail: ALLCACH@VAX.OX.AC.UK Please make sure that you give your name, full mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, and e-mail address with any enquiry. INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMME COMMITTEE Chair: Thomas Corns, University of Wales (ALLC) Daniel Brink, Arizona State University (ACH) Gordon Dixon, Manchester Polytechnic (ALLC) Paul Fortier, University of Manitoba (ACH) Jacqueline Hamesse, Universite Catholique Louvain-la-Neuve (ALLC) Nancy Ide, Vassar College (ACH) Randall Jones, Brigham Young University (ACH) Donald Ross, University of Minnesota (ACH) Antonio Zampolli, University of Pisa (ALLC) Local organisers: Susan Hockey, St Cross College, Oxford and Princeton-Rutgers Universities (ALLC) Lou Burnard, Oxford University (ALLC, Programme Liaison) Conference Administrator: Katy Cubitt -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 12:36:23 +0000 From: gburnage@natcorp.ox.ac.uk (Gavin Burnage) Subject: New Humanities Postgraduate Mailing List Dear all, Please pass on this information to any humanities postgraduates you know. H U M G R A D HUMGRAD is a new UK-based electronic mailing list for postgraduates working in the humanities. It's a forum for the exchange of ideas, information and comment on any humanities subject and the work and problems of postgraduates. Subscribing to it will put you in touch with people across the UK and beyond who have interests and difficulties similar to your own. A big advantage of a list for postgraduates is that it provides the opportunity to ask questions away from the minefield of the academic high ground. As well as being a place for general humanities discussion, HUMGRAD might be able to help you discover the potential of computers in humanities research, even if your computing skills and interests are currently minimal. To join the list, send this command in a mail message: SUBSCRIBE HUMGRAD YOUR NAME to one of the following addresses as appropriate: MAILBASE@NEWCASTLE.AC.UK (everywhere outside the UK) MAILBASE@UK.AC.NEWCASTLE (within the UK) MAILBASE is more or less equivalent to the LISTSERVs to be found on EARN and BITNET -- but don't expect the commands to be exactly the same! When you subscribe, a Mailbase User's Guide is sent to you automatically (unless you're a mailbase user already). To find out more about the use of mailbase before subscribing, email the command HELP or SEND MAILBASE USERHELP to one of the mailbase addresses above. If you want to deal with a mailbase human rather than the mailbase computer, send a message to MAILBASE-REQUEST@NEWCASTLE.AC.UK (outside the UK) or MAILBASE-REQUEST@UK.AC.NEWCASTLE (within the UK). The HUMGRAD list owners, Stuart Lee and Gavin Burnage, will be be able to help with queries related specifically to the list. Gavin Burnage Stuart Lee British National Corpus CTI Centre for Textual Studies Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road OXFORD OX2 6NN 0865-273280 0865-273221 GBURNAGE@UK.AC.OX.NATCORP STUART@UK.AC.OX.VAX -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-122. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-123. Sat 08 Feb 1992. Lines: 133 Subject: 3.123 Synaesthesia, Finite Sets, Origin of OK Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 10:48:21 EST From: cowan@uunet.UU.NET (John Cowan) Subject: SYNESTHESIA 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 12:23:18 -0600 From: mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) Subject: Finite sets 3) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 23:54:34 -0500 From: zgilbert@epas.utoronto.ca (Zvi Gilbert) Subject: The True Origin of OK -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 10:48:21 EST From: cowan@uunet.UU.NET (John Cowan) Subject: SYNESTHESIA DO YOU PERCEIVE THIS MESSAGE AS BEING SPOKEN LOUDLY? MOST USERS OF ELECTRONIC MAIL HAVE A SYNESTHETIC REFLEX THAT MAKES THEM WANT TO TELL ALL-CAPS POSTERS TO "STOP SHOUTING". -- cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 12:23:18 -0600 From: mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) Subject: Finite sets I'm having trouble understanding Wlodek Zadrozny's claim about well-orderings of finite sets. Specifically, he says that there are "finite sets which cannot be well ordered," for example "a set of balls in a box, which is finite, but, intuitively, not well ordered." There is a big difference between saying that a set "is not totally ordered" or "is not well-ordered" (the two are equivalent for a finite set) and saying that the set "cannot be well-ordered." It is quite easy for a set to satisfy the former condition: it is sufficient that no order has been specified in the current context (e.g. in the current conversation, in the current book, in recent literature in the field). It is also only a temporary condition: I can add a total order to any finite set at any time just by writing down the definition of the order (which is finite). Saying that a set "cannot be well-ordered" is much stronger. In the normal mathematical sense of the term, any finite set can be well-ordered. If a set cannot be well-ordered, that is a permanent mathematical fact about the set. Notice also that a "well-ordering" is simply a particular sort of ordering. Like "partial ordering." It does not mean an order which has been precisely specified or can be computed or is generally accepted. That is, its meaning (in mathematics) is NOT parallel to that of "well-defined." Margaret Fleck -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 23:54:34 -0500 From: zgilbert@epas.utoronto.ca (Zvi Gilbert) Subject: The True Origin of OK >From: Pamela Munro >Subject: OK Re the suggested Wolof origin of OK There have been many versions of the origin of OK, but it seems that its "true" origins have been conclusively established by one Allen Walker Read of Columbia University in _American Speech_ in 1963 and 1964. As some of the denizens of LINGUIST may not be aware of this, I will summarize it here. "The letters stand for "oll korrect" and are the result of a fad for comical abbreviations that flourished in the 1830s and 1840s. Read buttressed his arguments with hundreds of citations from newspapers and other documents of the period...the fad began in Boston in the summer of 1838...Many of the abbreviations were exaggerated misspellings which were a stock in trade of humourists of the day. One predecessor of OK was OW "oll wright", and there was also KY "know yuse"...Most of the acronyms enjoyed only a brief popularity but OK was an exception... Democratic supporters of Martin Van Buren adopted it as the name of their political club, thereby giving OK a double meaning ("Old Kinderhook" as Van Buren was known, was a native of Kinderhook, NY). OK became the warcry of Tammany hooligans in New York... and was mentioned in newspaper stories across the country...by the time the campaign was over, the expression had taken firm root nationwide..." I quote the above from Cecil Adams' brilliant book _More of the Straight Dope_, a companion volume to his first, _The Straight Dope_. No aspiring know-it-all ought to be without these two books. There's about a billion other theories, but apparently, there's evidence for this one. Wolof? Choctaw? NOT! :) :) By the way, these two books contain chapters on language, where Cecil responds to questions from the Teeming Millions on language issues. He discussed Berlin & Kay's work on colour terms in some detail, in response to a query on whether "primitive" man could see colour, and also discusses eskimo morphology (an early attempt to debunk the Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax, though not as rigourous as Pullum.) Hope this is informative, and interesting too! --Zvi zgilbert@epas.utoronto.ca @epas.toronto.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-123. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-124. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 163 Subject: 3.124 FYI: Program Available, New Journal Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 92 11:14:02 EST From: j.guy@trl.oz.au (Jacques Guy) Subject: A PC Program for identifying Related Words 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 17:28:47 MST From: Sherman Wilcox Subject: New journal/Call for papers: Interpreters for the Deaf -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 92 11:14:02 EST From: j.guy@trl.oz.au (Jacques Guy) Subject: A PC Program for identifying Related Words When I joined the Voynich Manuscript interest group, I dusted up and dolled up a few computer programs I had written for my selfish purposes in the days when I was employed as a linguist, and contributed them to their public ftp site. Amongst those was a curiosity which might amuse and perhaps puzzle subscribers to Linguist. To spare you the chore of uudecoding then unzipping the files only to find that you deem it of no interest, I shall copy hereunder the DOC file, and follow with the uuencoded zip file. Kindly let me know what you think. COGNATE an apparently wonderfully useless program implementing an algorithm by Jacques B.M. Guy Artificial Intelligence Systems Telecom (Australia) Research Laboratories WHAT IS "COGNATE"? COGNATE is the implementation of a prototype algorithm for identifying related words across languages. My ultimate purpose in developing COGNATE was to take a first step towards solving a far more interesting, and difficult, problem of automatic machine translation: given a bilingual text, find the rules for translating from either language into the other. Given the same list of words in two different languages, COGNATE will determine which words are likely to be regularly derivable from each other, and which are not. The longer the list, or the more closely related the two languages are, the better the performance of COGNATE. For instance, suppose that you have typed into a file 200 words in English (one per line), and in another file the same 200 words, in the same order, in German (again one per line). English and German are fairly close languages. Given these two files, and no other information whatsoever, COGNATE will be able to tell for instance that English "TWENTY" and German "ZWANZIG" are almost certainly derivable from each other, and so are English "HONEY" and German "HONIG"; but it will also tell you that English "HORSE" and German "PFERD" are not so related. COGNATE will also tell you, when comparing "TWENTY" with "ZWANZIG", that English "T" corresponds to German "Z". Because of the very nature of the algorithm, you may encypher each file using a simple-substitution code, without causing COGNATE to be confused. For instance, if you have encoded the English data by shifting one letter forward (so that "TWENTY" becomes "UXFOUZ") and the German data by shifting one letter backward (so that "ZWANZIG" becomes "YVZMYHF"), COGNATE will still able to tell that "UXFOUZ" and "YVZMYHF" are related, and that "IPSTF" ("HORSE") and "OEDQC" ("PFERD") are not. I thought up the algorithm behind COGNATE around 1981, and implemented it first in Simula 67 on a DEC KL10. Then, as a self-inflicted challenge which I did not expect to win, I tried to translate it into Turbo Pascal, to run on my Kaypro II. It worked. On a Kaypro II, it would take COGNATE 40 seconds to analyze two files each containing 200 words, and find which were related and which not. On a 386DX running at 33MHz, the same operation looks as if it were instantaneous. [Moderators' note: The full program file is available on the server. To get the file, send a message to: listserv@tamvm1.tamu.edu (if you are on the Internet) OR listserv@tamvm1 (if you are on the Bitnet) The message should consist of the single line: get cognate prog linguist You will then receive the complete file.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 17:28:47 MST From: Sherman Wilcox Subject: New journal/Call for papers: Interpreters for the Deaf ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW JOURNAL CALL FOR PAPERS The JOURNAL OF INTERPRETATION, a quarterly journal of the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf, Inc., publishes articles, research reports, commentaries and squibs, review articles, and book reviews. The journal reflects a broad, interdisciplinary approach to the interpretation and translation of languages. The journal expressly desires to serve as a forum for the cross-fertilization of ideas from diverse theoretical and applied fields, examining signed or spoken language interpretation and translation. Articles addressing interpretation and translation theory and practice, interpreter and translator education, and related topics are especially welcome. In addition, research and commentaries examining the interpretation and translation of signed and spoken languages from the fields of linguistics, psycholinguistics, sociolinguistics, neurolinguistics, applied linguistics, cognitive science, machine translation, discourse analysis, conversational analysis, anthropology, semiotics, and communication are appropriate for submission. Any standard format for style, notes, and references is suitable for editorial consideration. Authors of accepted articles will be required to submit copy which conforms to the editorial standards of the journal. Manuscripts may be submitted to the editor-in-chief at the address below. One copy on 8 1/2" X 11" paper is requested. Manuscripts also will be accepted in several electronic formats. Acceptable Macintosh formats are Microsoft Word, MacWrite, WordPerfect, Nisus, PageMaker, and FrameMaker; MS-DOS files may be submitted in WordPerfect 5.x, PageMaker, and Microsoft Word. Only files on 3 1/2" disks (Macintosh and MS-DOS) are acceptable. Electronic submissions should be accompanied by hard copy of the manuscript. Manuscripts should be submitted to: Sherman Wilcox, Editor-in-Chief Journal of Interpretation Department of Linguistics University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131 The Internet address for the journal is wilcox@carina.unm.edu Subscription and membership information, advertisements, and all other communication should be addressed to: Sylvia Straub Executive Director Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf, Inc. 8719 Colesville Road Suite #310 Silver Spring, MD 20901-3919 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-124. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-125. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 116 Subject: 3.125 FTP Access to the Oxford Text Archive Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 18:06 GMT From: Oxford Text Archive Subject: Internet Access to the Oxford Text Archive -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 18:06 GMT From: Oxford Text Archive Subject: Internet Access to the Oxford Text Archive INTERNET ACCESS TO THE OXFORD TEXT ARCHIVE As of this month, it is now possible to access machines here on JANET directly from the InterNet. As of today, it is also (ipso facto) possible directly to transfer files from a machine here to any other machine on the InterNet, without specifying a password, filling in a form, or any of that other stuff that some people find so difficult. We'd like to start making some -- not all -- of the Oxford Text Archive's materials available in this way. There are two constraints. Firstly, we cannot distribute material that does not belong to us. But there is a small quantity of material we can distribute, which we believe to be in the public domain. Secondly, we want to begin as we intend to go on: by distributing materials in TEI SGML only. But there is a small number of (mostly very large) files which we will make available 'as is' to test the procedure immediately. We'd appreciate your comments as to how useful/reliable you've found the procedure. Here's what you need to know: >From a machine on the Internet, you should type FTP ox.ac.uk << N.B. this is *not* VAX.OX.AC.UK! or, since we're not in many people's official name tables yet, FTP 129.67.1.165 When connected, give username anonymous and supply your name as a password. Unless otherwise stated, all files contain plain uncompressed character data The following files are currently available in the directory ota: textarchive.sgml List of OTA Holdings as of 1 November in SGML textarchive.list Same list, no SGML tags textarchive.form Text Archive Order form The following are currently available in the directory ota/dicts 710 Directory containing the three files making up the 'computer-usable' dictionary derived from 1) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 18:06 GMT From: Oxford Text Archive Subject: Internet Access to the Oxford Text Archive OALDCE by Roger Mitton 1054 Directory containing the MRC Psycholinguistic Database, complete with manuals and simple C programs for accessing 1) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 18:06 GMT From: Oxford Text Archive Subject: Internet Access to the Oxford Text Archive the database info File containing brief descriptive details of all machine readable dictionaries currently held in the Archive, with illustrative examples from each The following files are currently available in the directory ota/tei vm2tar.Z The public domain ARC SGML parser: complete source code and documentation for UNIX systems. (This version has been modified to support TEI dtds; it is in compressed TAR format) So, for example, to get the plain shortlist, you'd type ftp 129.67.1.165 anonymous myname cd ota get textarchive.list bye Internet access is regarded here as a privilege, not a right. Please don't overuse it! And please remember that this is an experimental facility, which may be withdrawn or substantially modified at any time without notice. Lou Burnard Alan Morrison Oxford Text Archive 5 Feb 92 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-125. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-126. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 295 Subject: 3.126 Proto-World Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 04:28 EET From: MANYMAN@FINUHA.bitnet Subject: Proto World (loosely) 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 12:30:16 EST From: Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu Subject: Proto-World 3) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 16:09 MST From: CAROLG@CC.UTAH.EDU Subject: Re: 3.118 Proto-World II 4) Date: 6 February 92, 08:29:27 EST From: R12040.at.UQAM@tamvm1.tamu.edu Subject: Scientific American 5) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 92 11:36:53 CST From: SLCAMP%LSUVM@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU Subject: Re: 3.117 Proto-World I -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 04:28 EET From: MANYMAN@FINUHA.bitnet Subject: Proto World (loosely) According to Andrew Carnie it's about time that "we" -- that is, those "we" who know what linguistic mainstream should be concerned with (this kind of "we" is likely to be extremely exclusive) -- reprimand the editors and readers of Scientific American for not being interested in really HOT topics out of which every serious linguist gets a kick. Is that so? I bet SA readers would be thrilled at learning that Case is necessary both for PF-visibility of nominals and LF-visibility of theta- marked chains and that passive morpheme is a syntactic argument which is an affix tied to the Infl node and that clitics absorb s-government. And so on. The tough problem here is how to convince the enlightened lay public of SA that such hot topics in mainstream linguistics are sexy. Mission impossible! But let's try to be serious. While it's not my purpose to debunk GB, the above random quotations from recent papers show the nature of the problem: Theoretical linguistics faces exactly the same popularization problems as logic or mathematics: they sound monk latin to lay public, and it's not obvious at all how to make them more palatable without destroying the point. It looks like we have to live with the fact that lay public is much more interested in Historical Linguistics, Etymology, and Philology than professional linguists (or at least some linguistic departments) are. Ordinary (wo)man of the street is likely to be interested in everything that somehow concerns him/her or somethig he/she can relate him/herself to, and this is why non-autonomous linguistic issues tend to sell pretty well. As Michael Kac points out, Chomsky is one linguist with name recognition throughout the educated lay public; but Chomsky isn't necessarily interested in what his lay public thinks he is. It was shrewd sales promotion to publish a booklet on Language & Mind (1968), and to give interviews about the same topic. What did the trick is, is that from then on every non-linguist (and a lot of linguists) believed that what Chomsky was doing was extremely relevant to psycholinguistics. Joe Stemberger interestingly documents the gap between the achievements of theoretical phonology and what use can be made of it by researchers of psychology and communication disorders. I'm sure many members of the Linguist List would have similar stories to tell. It would be naive to demand that everything in linguistics should be potentially popularizable. This is self- evident in mathematics, and this should be equally evident in grammatical theory. On the other hand, there's much of human interest in linguistics, and it is our obligation not to leave that to the hands of charlatans or well-wishing laypersons. To me, Proto World is an interesting hypothesis -- in principle. Again I concur in Stemberger's opinion that the trouble lies in methodology. Well, about such megalocomparisons Nancy Dray has much to sing. Yes, it's a good song, and I'd join the chorus, if I knew the tune. (But in the '70ies I was out for something harder than Gilbert O'Sullivan...) Martti Nyman (Department of General Linguistics, University of Helsinki, Finland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 12:30:16 EST From: Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu Subject: Proto-World Having started the current discussion about the press coverage of certain claims in historical linguistics (notably those dealing with Proto-World), I find myself somewhat discouraged by the vast majority of the ensuing responses, many of which either dump on historical linguistics or make silly and prejudiced claims about Soviet linguistics or criticize some journalists who spent months of intensive labor familiarizing themselves with historical linguistics and strove to present a more complete (and more accurate) picture of some of the recent controversies in language classification than any professional linguist I know (except perhaps for Paul Newman's recent attempts to make some sense of the Amerind debate). So let me just add the following thoughts: (1) I think the press has the right to cover whatever it finds interesting, and of course we all have the right to try to get them to find OUR work interesting. But I think the record would show that few if any theoretical linguists have made the kind of effort to get publicity that Vitaly Shevoroshkin put in to get it for the ideas he likes. So, frankly, although I myself have done a lot more theoretical than historical work, I think the complaints on this score are just sour grapes. (2) I think the linguists who want to waste their time on Proto- World have a perfect right to, and the press has a perfect right to cover this activity. (3) I also think that hitherto the press has done a reasonable job (if not a perfect one) of presenting the point of view that the work on Proto-World (and other such ideas) is a lot of nonsense. Indeed, the press seems to have a much better idea of some of the issues and distinctions than many linguists (for example, USNews, Sci. Am., and Atlantic all very clearly distinguished between the Nostratic, the Sino-Caucasian, the Amerind, and the Proto-World hypotheses, and presented a reasonable first approximation of the stoty of the Soviet linguists involved in the work on the first two of these). (4) What I DO object to, and call on other linguists to join in this, is any attempt to present, say, the work on Proto- World as something that is based on normal linguistic work, when in fact essentially nothing has been published on this in the way of technical work that could elicit competent scholarly criticism. And, needless to say, I also object to any presentation of these ideas which does not allow competent scholars adequate time to argue against it (if they want to waste THEIR time on such a refutation). In the case of USNews, Sci. Am., and Atlantic, various people were cited at length on these issues. Yet, in the case of the BBC, I, for example, was offered the opportunity to be shown arguing with Shevoroshkin in a roomful of partying Russians (the party being especially arranged for the BBC film crew) in Ann Arbor. THAT sort of thing, of course, seemed to me to be calculated to make the audience assume that the Proto-World ideas of Shevoroshkin et al. were at best opposed by some misguided "establishment" types, without allowing the issues to be aired much less debated in an open forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 16:09 MST From: CAROLG@CC.UTAH.EDU Subject: Re: 3.118 Proto-World II All the uproar about Proto-World just makes anew the point that what we teach in our introductory linguistics courses is important. For many students it is their only exposure to linguistics as taught by linguists. Those who care about what the person on the street thinks about language issues like Proto-World (I'm one who cares) should include a serious segment (a week's worth?) on historical linguistics and methods in reconstruction, comparative studies, what IS known about prehistory and language as well as what probably can't be known, and so on, in their most basic and introductory linguistics course. It can be done. This might (marginally) increase the number of (marginally) better informed people in the media, as well as on the street. And why don't linguists publish more in the "popular science" press? Carol Georgopoulos -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: 6 February 92, 08:29:27 EST From: R12040.at.UQAM@tamvm1.tamu.edu Subject: Scientific American It would seem to me that if there is genuine concern about the editorial decisions and by implication the policies of Scientific American, with respect to Linguistics, a direct inquiry to one of the editors of Scientific American would be an appropriate tack. Harry Whitaker -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 92 11:36:53 CST From: SLCAMP%LSUVM@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU Subject: Re: 3.117 Proto-World I Here are some comments on the discussion of Proto-World (PW), historical linguistics (HL), and linguistics in the media. I've lost track of the names of the various commentators (sorry), and so will mostly address the ideas. First, about whether HL is "mainstream". Several comments implied that HL is somehow peripheral and that not many linguists do it. I believe this is mistaken. I saw somewhere recently (sorry I can't remember the source) a list of linguists employed at universities with a list of their specializations. I was very surprised to see that the most frequently listed specialization (not necessarily the primary interest) was HL. This may be in sharp contrast to the perception one gets from conference programs, certain journals, or the course listings of linguistics departments, but HL is alive and well. Moreover, HL is not at all outside of mainstream interests, but rather con- tributes significantly to broader issues of linguistic theory. Thus, like Dan Everett, I and many historical linguists also find formal syntax, phonology and issues of learnability of interest -- and HL has a role to play in re- search on these topics. For example, in the study of syntactic change, as we determine more and more accurately what can change and what cannot change in a language, and what the permitted vs. impossible ways are in which grammars change, we learn ever more about how the pieces of language interact, about the constraints the humn mind imposes on language(s), and we thus contribute significantly to understanding of universal grammar, typology, human cognition. HL is in no way peripheral or irrelevant. Next, about the reporting and representation of linguistics in the media. It was surprising that those who were lamenting HL's getting too much lime- light in the (semi-)scientific popular press were on the whole questioning the relevance of HL in general, rather than questioning the kind of HL represented -- asking rather why "mainstream" HL is not reported in an accurate fashion, instead of being tainted in the public eye by such marginal matters as Proto-World (PW). Others who addressed the issue of PW directly and its press coverage considered whether "outrage" was in order, whether "choking off a wrong- headed line of research is the proper thing to do ... to police our discipline and weed out snake-oil salesmen." My opiniion is that we shouldn't mind the radical fringe of linguistics (such as PW) receiving a fari hearing. However, the frustration comes when we sense unfair play. We believe in peer evaluation and the efficacy of scholarly dialogue. However, in the case of PW, proponents presented their evidence, it was weighed by specialists, and it failed to be convincing or plausible -- it was not embraced within the profession. Unsatisfied with this, Shevoroshkin and other PWists adopted a media campaign, and end-run around the normal checks and balances of the profession provided by peer evaluation and dialogue. What is truly frustra- ting is that the media eats it up, but do not fulfill their obligation of objective reporting in that they typically do not report accurately the scientifically founded legitimate doubts of the majority of linguists, leaving the unsuspecting public misled. I have been interviewed several times in this connection, usually with unpleasant results. For example, I pleaded with Philip Ross "Trends in lin- guistics: Hard words", Scientific American, April 1991| to report differences of opinion as normal scholarly dialogue with different conclusions regarding substantive issues, but he could see substantive criticism, not as normal professional/scholarly activity, but rather only as nagative emotional outbursts, indicators of nasty personality clashes. Incidentally, Ross is a staff writer, with no previous exposure to linguistics; thus, it is not the case, as someone wrote, that pieces in Scientific American are written by specialists. When R. Wright "Quest for the mother tongue", Atlantic Monthly April, 1991| interviewed me, I asked him why he (& others) did reported this peripheral stuff but neglected the exciting recent advances and other debates in linguistics (cognition, speech synthesis, discourse analysis, parsing and machine translation efforts, Indo-European homeland, Mayan decipherment, gender issues in language, and so on)? His reply was that only something "sexy" would be accepted for publication in such sources -- I guess sexy is in the eye of the beholder. (Incidentally, I wear as a badge of honor, on my office door, Shevoroshkin's claim reported in this piece that I and Ives Goddard| have "twisted brains".) So, what's sexy? Well, recently the Advocate (Baton Rouge's newspaper) interviewed me about Barry Fell's claim that Atakapa (extinct local American Indian language) has many Egyptian words due to an ancient Egyptian trading post in Louisiana. I attempted a polite but firm debunking, again suggesting that they would serve the public better by reporting the more realistic and exciting aspects of linguistic news -- reply: it's not spectacular enough. As a result of this newspaper report, I was contacted by three additional reporters wanting to do follow-up stories, and by a national firm, syndicated to provide radio stations with titillating recorded tidbits to jazz up pro- gramming and to make local disk-jockies wittier! OK, in Louisiana's defense (something I thought I'd never be reduced to), I've seen weird Barry Fell stories in papers in New York, California, and Oregon, too. I close with a question: does anyone have any good ideas about how to let all comers have a fair hearing but not to allow them to make end-runs in the media around the normal checks and balances of scholarly evaluation, and in the process mislead nonspecialists and make it more difficult for legitimate scholars to advance their fields? Any ideas about how to get the media to report the real stuff, or at least to report the weird stuff objectively? Lyle Campbell -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-126. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-127. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 334 Subject: 3.127 Abstracts: Conference on Cognition and Representation Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 92 22:51:33 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: Abstracts: CONFERENCE ON COGNITION AND REPRESENTATION -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 92 22:51:33 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: Abstracts: CONFERENCE ON COGNITION AND REPRESENTATION ABSTRACTS OF PAPERS CONFERENCE ON COGNITION AND REPRESENTATION April 3-5, 1992 Center for Tomorrow, State University of New York at Buffalo FRIDAY AFTERNOON PAUL SMOLENSKY "Connectionism, Compositionality, and the Explanation of Productivity" The most fundamental fact that any theory of human cognition must explain is the incredible productivity of human knowledge. Most obviously in language, but also in other cognitive domains, human knowledge supports a range of appropriate behaviors that is appropriately idealized as infinite. The strategy for explaining this fact that has virtually defined cognitive science since its inception has been to (1) analyze the behaviors in question as possessing combinatorial structure, and (2) to identify human knowledge as part of an internal causal mechanism that physically realizes this combinatorial system. Possessing a finite repertoire of basic constituents and the means to (recursively) compose them, this mechanism explains productivity. Connectionism can respond to this in at least the following three ways: (1) Deny the problem. (2) Implement the standard explanation. (3) Offering a new explanation, possibly while revising the problem. Radical eliminativist connectionism takes option (1)--by default if not by explicit intent. Connectionist critics such as Fodor & Pylyshyn have advocated (2), and some connectionist research has also followed this option. In this talk, I will present results of my program of technical connectionist research based on option (3), and discuss its implications for the foundations of cognitive science. TIM VAN GELDER "Distributed Represenation--An Outline" What is distributed representation? This question is central to many practical and philosophical concerns, both in connectionism and in cognitive science more generally, yet it has never been given an answer that is both comprehensive and preceise. In this talk I propose a way of defining distribution that, on one hand, reveals the fundamental similarity between (for example) the gross functional neuroanatomy of the various brain areas and connectionist hidden unit activity patterns, while on the other is strict enough to yield mathematically precise descriptions in real modeling contexts. The key concept is that of semantic superimposition; I elaborate this suprisingly tricky concept, offer a formal framework rendering it precise, and explain how superimposition can be incorporated into a general definition of distributed representation. DAVID BANACH "Representing, Similarity, and the Storage of Information" Representing is an activity, a process through which a subject cognizes the world. Most theories of representation take one element or component of this activity and identify it as the representation by attributing to the element, in isolation, properties it has only in the context of the act of representing. In particular, I argue that the similarity of an icon to an object is neither necessary nor sufficient for representation and that seeing why this is so reveals fundamental defects with views that see representations as (1) stored information, which represents in virtue of an isomorphism effected by an information storage and retrieval algorithm; or (2) as a distributed pattern of activity over a set of units or phase space, which represents in virtue of a topological isomorphism to the represented object. All of these models identify the representation with some element of the cognitive process that cannot intrinsically represent apart from its situation in a wider context. I argue that such models of representation will fail to account for the cognitive role of representation as long as they mistake part of the representing process for the representating itself. ANN ROBYNS "Primary and Mature Conceptual Structures--Evidence from Child Language" Currently, in semanic enquiry some researchers represent lexical-conceptual structure as an architecture of sets and truth conditions. Others borrow from psychology such terms as 'conceptual primitives', 'canonical' and 'marginal' structures, and 'prototypes' (e.g. Jackendoff, 1990). The documentation of usage of verb argument structures, may shed considerable light on this division. Differentials in production of argument structures by children over time may shed light on the construction of underlying representations. These differences over time appear to also have an effect on complexity of context sentences. Production of tense, mood and negation markers appears to be contingent on the stability of conceptual structures underlying production of arguments. The current study supports the view that childrens' conceptual structures can be characterized as prototypes, and that gradual extension of structures is contingent on transition to new prototypes. Early on (1968), Fillmore advocated the need for distinct treatment of propositional and modal information. Our results show that the presence of modality in a sentence is contingent on high-frequency argument structures. If the development of modality (in Fillmore's sense) and propositional content are distinguishable but show this relation, how is it to be characterized? Jackendoff (1990) distinguishes between I-languages (internal, based on innate predispositions) and E-languages (input-dependent). He holds that truth-conditional semantics requires a theory of language as an abstract artifact extrinsic to speakers. A possible interpretation of our findings is that modality overlayed on propositional content may be the means whereby this abstract artifact is reconstructed as part of a speaker's internal representation. Truth-conditional semantics, then, involves modelling mature inferential processes, or mature representation. This possibility will be examined in light of actual developmental sequences, where modal forms can be shown to emerge gradually to condition verb meaning in ways at least reminiscent of model theoretic semantics. FRIDAY EVENING CHARLES FILLMORE "Representing Grammatical Knowledge as a Repertory of Constructions" (abstract not available) SATURDAY MORNING JOHN KOUNIOS and PHILLIPS HOLCOMB "Inferring Semantic-Memory Structure from Behavioral and Electrophysiological Measures" Researchers have investigated the structure of semantic-memory representations by examining subjects' performance in tasks in which they must judge the truth of sentences relating familar categories (e.g., _ALL DOGS ARE ANIMALS_., or _SOME PEOPLE ARE TREES_.). Differences in time to verify various classes of sentences were initally interpreted in terms of characteristics of the semantic representations retrieved from memory. Subsequent investigators have reinterpreted these findings in terms of characteristics of the verification _processes_ operating on these representations, rather than in terms of the representations themselves. We have taken a different approach. Instead of inferring the nature of knowledge representations based on how people _use_ them (i.e., "behavioral" response date), we have been investigating electrical protentials in the brain during sentence verification. A certain component of these potentials seems to reflect the _access_ or _retrieval_ of the stored knowledge, and not the processes that use this information to judge truth. These access/retrieval mechanisms better reflect structural characteristics of semantic memory than do behavioral measures, yielding a different picture of semantic-memory structure. VINOD GOEL "Specifying Classifying Representational Systems: A Critique and Proposal for Cognitive Science" Much of the work in cognitive science presupposes a theory of representation complete with a classification scheme; a scheme which allow us to say that two representations are interestingly similar or interestingly different for particular purposes. It is argued that such a scheme needs to meet at least the following eight constraints: (i) It must be grounded in some intuitions or a discipline-specific theory; (ii) It must not beg the crucial questions; (iii) It must result in an interesting number of categories (i.e., something other than a unit or infinite number); (iv) It must individuate on the basis of relevant/constitutive properties of symbol systems; (v) It must be readily applicable; (vi) It must be widely applicable; (vii) The distinctions must be detectable by our behavioral data and methodology; (viii) It must be compatible with the computational story of mind. The most widely used apparatus for classifying symbol systems is that of informational and computational equivalence. This is critiqued and found wanting on most accounts. A diagnosis of the problem is offered. Time permitting, some prescriptive suggestions will also be made. STEVEN HORST "Notions of Representation and the Diverging Interests of Philosophy and Empirical Science" Contemporary discussions of mental representation often seem to assume that there is a single sense of the word `representation' that (a) is applied univocally to such disparate objects as pictures, maps and symbols, (b) is utilized by empirical researchers in cognitive science, and (c) can readily be used to provide a philosophical account of intentionality. In fact, however, the notion of "representation" is paradigm-driven, and all of the familiar paradigms (symbols, etc.) are convention- or interpretation-dependent. This undercuts one philosophical strategy for explaining the content of mental states in representational terms. However, a non-conventional notion of "representation" as a theoretical term can be developed which seems to capture the empirical scientist's needs even if it does not explain the intentionality of mental states. This accords well with the following view of the importance of the computer paradigm: that what it provides is (i) a formalism for the mathematization of psychology and (ii) suggestive strategies for microexplanation. JERRY A. FODOR (and ERNEST LEPORE) "Representation, Compositionality, and Analyticity" We claim that three principles, all of which have been widely espoused in the philosophy of language and in cognitive science, cannot be simultaneously satisfied. These are: 1. That meaning is inferential role. 2. That there is no analytic/synthetic distinction. 3. That meaning is compositional. If 1-3 are not simultaneously satisfiable, at least one of them must be abandoned. We consider the question of which to give up, and of what the implications of doing so are likely to be. SATURDAY AFTERNOON JOHN F. SOWA: "Matching Logical Form to Linguistic Form" (abstract not available) BARBARA L. SPEICHER "Disentangling Conceptual and Linguistic Knowledge" Language is the principal mediator of thought and one of the few vehicles with which to explore abstract conceptual structures. Cognitive psychologists use linguistic evidence to study psychological functions such as memory and categorization and to construct models of knowledge representation. However, researchers in cognitive psychology seldom address how to disentangle conceptual and linguistic knowledge. In fact, the field seems to assume that the two systems are isomorphic. The related field of neurology provides insights into the relationship between cognition and language. Findings from both split-brain and aphasic populations encourage a separation of linguistic and conceptual structures. Specifically, Antonio Damasio's neurological theory of convergence zones is presented and used to explain the differential cognitive and linguistic abilities of neurologically impaired individuals such as split-brain populations and aphasic populations. The paper analyuzes both simple concepts and complex conceptual structures known as scripts. BARBARA ABBOTT and LARRY HAUSER "Natural Language and Thought" Hauser defends the proposition that our languages of thought are public languages. One group of arguments points to the coincidence of clearly productive thought with overt possession of recursive symbol systems. Another group relies on phenomenological experiences of mental discourse and making thoughts physical. A third group cites practical considerations, e.g. Occam's razor and the `streetlight principle' (look under the lamp) motivating looking for instantiations of outer languages in thought first. Abbott points to the literature and adduces a number of specific replies to Hauser. Examples of productive behavior showing thatnatural language is not necessary for productive thought includeproblem solving by chimpanzees, dreams, and feral human cases (Genie). On phenomenological and practical grounds, Abbott argues that communication of thoughts should be trivial if the inner language is the outer language, but it is not; the decryption analogy Hauser uses to apply the `streetlight principle' is flawed; and Occam's razor doesn't cut any ice with Mother Nature. SUNDAY MORNING MICHAEL TARR "Behavioral and Computational Constraints in Human Shape Representation" Do visual representations use an object-centered or viewer-centered reference frame? Studies suggest that recognition is orientation-dependent under many circumstances. The resulting theory, Multiple-Views-Plus-Transformations, hypothesizes that recognition is achieved by using a mental transformation to match input shapes to object representations in a viewer-centered reference frame. Moreover, these representations are orientation-specific, e.g. "views", and are stored according to the frequency of occurrence of an object in a particular orientation. However, familiarity is not the only factor that determines represented views. First, there is evidence that views are contingent upon the frequency with which other objects appear at particular orientations. Representations of familiar objects in novel views may arise as a result of the frequent appearance of an object's visually similar cohorts. Second, there is evidence that views are contingent upon the geometry of an object. The likelihood of a representation arising increases with the distinctiveness of visible surfaces at each orientation -- novel orientations are likely to be represented to the extent that their geometry is unique, while orientations in which the geometry differs only slightly from that depicted in preexisting views are unlikely to be represented. K. N. LEIBOVIC "Brain Mechanisms for Perceptual Representation" The brain is designed on a pattern of converging and diverging fiber tracts with their associated broadly tuned receptive and responsive fields. This puts certain constraints on the processing, transmission and representation of information. The properties of perceptive fields and target cells are taken as neural analogs of cognitive and logical operations. Analysis and synthesis can then be carried out in parallel; and the neural representations of elementary constituents and categorical constructs can be grounded in associational programs of activity in groups of cells. WHITMAN RICHARDS "Is Perception for Real?" What is the relation between the "external" world and our conceptualization of this world? At one extreme an independent external reality is denied, whereas at the other, an external reality is a requirement for any conceptualization. Perception lies at the heart of this controversy: can our percepts really reflect (or approximate) the true structure of the world independent of our observations or not? To address this question we need a clear understanding of just what a percept is and what it entails. I offer one definition and provide support for this choice using examples from vision (Jepson & Richards 1991). For our percepts to be useful, enabling us to predict the consequences of events and actions, certain conditions must be met. Two I will discuss are (1) the ability to manipulate representations or internal models, and (2) criteria for data (observations) which generate reliable interpretations. This second condition imposes limitations on the scope of useful percepts, and shows that percepts (perhaps like scientific theories?) are critically dependent upon a matching of cognitive concepts to modal regularities in the world. Linguist List: Vol-3-127. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-128. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 119 Subject: 3.128 Queries: LFG, Historical, Semiotics, Monkeys Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 15:18:28 -0600 From: Bruce E Litow Subject: Lexical Functional Grammars 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 08:16:43 EST From: talmage@luvthang.aquin.ori-cal.com (David W. Talmage) Subject: Looking for software tools for historical linguistics 3) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 16:43:08 +0000 From: HUMA1@FRCICT81.bitnet Subject: Semiotics 4) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 10:28 CST From: Michael Hancher Subject: Monkeys at typewriters -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 15:18:28 -0600 From: Bruce E Litow Subject: Lexical Functional Grammars I would like to know if LFG formalism is still being used. The result of Berwick-Nishino that LFG grammaticality is NP-complete is not so negative as it might first appear. Any information on LFG research would be appreciated. Bruce Litow Computing Services Division P.O. Box 413 Univ. Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Milwaukee, WI, 53201 litow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 08:16:43 EST From: talmage@luvthang.aquin.ori-cal.com (David W. Talmage) Subject: Looking for software tools for historical linguistics I would like to correspond with historical linguists who are using software tools in their work. I'm especially interested in tools for the comparative method and/or internal reconstruction. Please reply directly to me. I'll summarize to the Linguist. ------------------------------------------------------------------ David W. Talmage (talmage@luvthang.aquin.ori-cal.com) "Once more. This is deixis. This is your brain on deixis. Any questions?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 16:43:08 +0000 From: HUMA1@FRCICT81.bitnet Subject: Semiotics Ron Smyth m'a indique l'existence d'un ouvrage publie par l'Universite de Toronto "Essays in Applied Visual Semiotics" qui est un receuil d'articles du Toronto Semiotic Circle. Quelqu'un peut-il me faire parvenir l'adresse electronique (si elle existe) de Paul Bouissac qui est au departement de francais de l'University deToronto.Victoria College, Toronto, Canada. Ce dernier semble etre en mesure de me donner plus de renseignement a propos de cet ouvrage. Si de votre cotes vous possedez des renseignements a ce propos, pouvez-vous me les communiquer. Thanks. MALIN Franck, Universite de Toulouse le Mirail, France. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 10:28 CST From: Michael Hancher Subject: Monkeys at typewriters "If I let my fingers wander idly over the keys of a typewriter it _might_ happen that my screed made an intelligible sentence. If an army of monkeys were strumming on typewriters they _might_ write all the books in the British Museum." A. S. Eddington called this "a rather classical illustration" when he introduced it into his discussion of entropy in _The Nature of the Physical World_, Gifford Lectures 1927 (New York: Macmillan; Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Press, 1931), 72. The general concept of generating a text by randomly scattering letters is as old as Cicero (_De Natura Deorum_ 2.37). But was the monkeys-at- typewriters example a "classical" one by 1927? Or did Eddington invent it? Michael Hancher / English / University of Minnesota Linguist List: Vol-3-128. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-129. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 84 Subject: 3.129 Summary: Big Time; -ish Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 23:15 EST From: I'm not short, merely vertically challenged." Subject: Making the big time. 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 10:24:42 -0600 From: mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) Subject: Something like post-sentential not, but another morpheme -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 23:15 EST From: I'm not short, merely vertically challenged." Subject: Making the big time. Here is a summary of responses I received related to "big time." Most people said that positives were worse than negatives, e.g., (1) You were a jerk big time (2)*You were a hero big time Others noticed that "big time" can occur by itself as a response to a question, whereas "major" and postposed adjectives like "galore" cannot. (3) Was it hard? Yeah, big time. (4) Were there balloons? *Yeah, galore/yeah, major. Others noticed that positives were not totally out, as in: (5) My photo students are into Macs big time. (6) You won big time. But something funny is clearly going on, since (7) seems to be much worse than (6): (7) ?You won the lottery big time. The preposed big-time is much more common, and may be derived from prison slang. the preposed version, as in "He's a big-time thief" seems to me to be unambigous- ly an adjective, while the postverbal "big time" appears, as one correspondent pointed out, to be modifying the verb or VP instead of a possibly nonexistent noun. Thanks to Zvi Gilbert, Joe Giampapa, John Hughes, Eric Carvalhal Miller, and Lisa Russell for their observations. Susan Fischer -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 10:24:42 -0600 From: mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) Subject: Something like post-sentential not, but another morpheme Certain of my British co-workers at Oxford seemed to use "ish" in a way similar to the descriptions of "not" that have recently appeared on this list. For example, Is your algorithm working? Yes, it's working. Ish. [I.e., meaning that it is sort-of working.] I'm working from memory and don't know how widespread this is. Odd that it should happen with something that, unlike "not," isn't even normally an independent word. Margaret Fleck -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-129. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-130. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 100 Subject: 3.130 Post-Ultimate Posting on Y'All Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 23:33:49 -0800 From: hubbard@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kathleen Hubbard) Subject: Re: 3.115 Last Posting on Y'all 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 20:59:26 CST From: ryberg@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Stephen Ryberg) Subject: genitive and a half? 3) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 09:20:45 -0600 From: acw@emx.utexas.edu (Anthony C. Woodbury) Subject: Re: 3.115 Last Posting on Y'all -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 23:33:49 -0800 From: hubbard@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kathleen Hubbard) Subject: Re: 3.115 Last Posting on Y'all Just some more data, to augment and/or correct what's gone before: as a y'all native of central Virginia, I can attest that it's never a disyllable there (you-all), always just y'all, hence I could never understand the "ya'll" spelling I've seen. Now I do, but that's not how we do it in the Old Dominion. I can also corroborate "y'all's" as a possessive, with no restrictions at all, and the use of y'all in the singular -- this happens mostly in greetings, in my experience ("How [are] y'all doing?" addressed to a single hearer). My dad's theory on this is that it's a bit like the Romance-etc. politeness thing, but specifically this: when you greet someone it's considered friendly (if not essential) to inquire about the state of their family/household, not just their person. Don't know where that cultural thing originates. The native Virginia use of y'all that struck me as most interesting (when I was there) was an emphatic "thank y'all, thank y'all so much" when someone received a gift from a group of people. I think it was the stress that made it interesting; y'all is usually fairly backgrounded. By the way, I find y'all exiting my mouth fairly frequently here out west, even though I'm self- conscious about it and don't have any other Southern accent traits, and it is in fact usually met with indulgent smiles. Hope y'all come to use it as the 2pl of choice over "youse", which to a southerner sounds abrasive. Kathleen Hubbard Berkeley transplant. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 20:59:26 CST From: ryberg@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Stephen Ryberg) Subject: genitive and a half? Sorry for dipping back into the allegedly completed discussion on the second person plural, but a recent conversation brought to mind a related something which I did not see mentioned in connection to the subject, and particularly the sometimes attested form "your all's." This form may not seem so surprising in light of the fact that we have a somewhat similar duplicacy of genitive marking in other English forms. To wit: a friend of Jane's/the Queen's/his v. a friend of Jane / the Queen /*?him Perhaps "your all's" results in part due to influence from the above N's forms? (though there are undoubtedly other factors/constraints involving the latter) Steve Ryberg Northwestern ryberg@casbah.acns.nwu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 09:20:45 -0600 From: acw@emx.utexas.edu (Anthony C. Woodbury) Subject: Re: 3.115 Last Posting on Y'all Living in Chicago in the early '70's, I recall being asked by my neighbor as we emerged on our respective back porches: That y'alls's [yalz@z] trash? Where y'alls's is genitive of y'alls (referring to me & my housemates), which is plural of y'all, which, as several other posters indicated, does indeed get used for singular referents in some people's dialects. Tony Woodbury -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-130. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-131. Sun 09 Feb 1992. Lines: 65 Subject: 3.131 Is, is Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Editorial Assistant: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 14:29 EST From: CARTER@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 12:45 PST From: Scott Delancey Subject: All's I know is 3) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 15:32:43 -0500 From: macaulay@j.cc.purdue.edu (Monica Macaulay) Subject: is is -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 14:29 EST From: CARTER@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge Reply to Ron Smyth on "all's I know...." This looks like a contraction of "all as I know..." similar to "there's some as....." for "there are some who..."a regular feature of my childhood dialect (English, East Kent), and presumably influenced by Scandinavian, where I believe "som" can be both a relative pro- noun and the equivalent of "as". Mike Carter -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 12:45 PST From: Scott Delancey Subject: All's I know is _All's I know is_ would be perfectly regular in a dialect with _as_ as a relative marker (as in _Them as has, gets_) -- All as (= that) I know is. I've always assumed that this was the analysis; any reason not to think so? Scott DeLancey -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 15:32:43 -0500 From: macaulay@j.cc.purdue.edu (Monica Macaulay) Subject: is is Speaking of "All's I know is...", how about: "How's about ..." --?? Monica -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-131. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-132. Mon 10 Feb 1992. Lines: 108 Subject: 3.132 Is, is; But; Parsing challenge Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 22:22:52 EST From: Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu Subject: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge 2) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 08:14 EST From: Herb Stahlke <00HFSTAHLKE@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge 3) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1992 13:37:45 -0500 From: zgilbert@epas.utoronto.ca (Zvi Gilbert) Subject: A postposed "but" dialect 4) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1992 00:49 MET From: JEROEN WIEDENHOF Subject: Re: parsing challenge - to be or not to bee -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 22:22:52 EST From: Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu Subject: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge (1) "All's I know" comes, I would argue, from *"All as I know", with the relative "as" which is found in many dialects of this beautiful language. (2) I would really question William Marslen-Wilson's statement that in Dutch "Eer was was was was was is." is "quite acceptable". This how stories like the Eskimo words for snow, the folk etymology of "ergative" from Greek "ergon", and other old linguists' tales get started. It is acceptable in the same way that English "That that that that that that precedes follows it is not surprising" is acceptable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 08:14 EST From: Herb Stahlke <00HFSTAHLKE@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: 3.121 Is, is, But, Parsing Challenge All's I know is that "All's I know" sounds a bit like the "How's come" variant of "How come" that one hears in this part of the Midwest. How's come that 's seems to show up after a focus element? Herb Stahlke Ball State University -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1992 13:37:45 -0500 From: zgilbert@epas.utoronto.ca (Zvi Gilbert) Subject: A postposed "but" dialect FYI: A postposed "but" dialect occurs in Mordechai Richler's novels about 1950s Jewish Montreal, including _St. Urbain's Horseman_ and _Duddy Kravitz_. As I recall (and I don't have the book in front of me) it seemed to be a general negative intensifier.... Any comments from those who 1) are native speakers of this dialect, or 2) have read the book more recently than me? --Zvi zgilbert@epas.utoronto.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1992 00:49 MET From: JEROEN WIEDENHOF Subject: Re: parsing challenge - to be or not to bee As no doubt many subscribers have observed, Stip's poem is based on the homonomy of Dutch _was_ 'wax' and _was_ 'was'. The contextual bee conditions the reader to interpret the 3rd, 4th and 5th _was_'s in the question as 'wax': Wat was was eer was was was? what was wax before wax wax was 'What was wax before wax was wax?' The bee interprets the question as Wat was was eer was was was? what was was before was was was 'What was was before was was was?' and answers accordingly: Eer was was was[,] was was is before was was was was was is 'Before was was was, was was is' Note that the translation has five occurrences of English _was_. Jeroen Wiedenhof -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-132. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-133. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 125 Subject: 3.133 Conferences, Call For Papers Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: 7 Feb 92 9:55 From: HASPELMATH@philologie.fu-berlin.dbp.de Subject: Goettingen Summer School 2) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 11:31:04 EST From: Carol Myers-Scotton Subject: African Studies Conference 3) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 10:10 EST From: SJS97@ALBNYVMS.bitnet Subject: Re: 3.119 Conference: Hungarian -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: 7 Feb 92 9:55 From: HASPELMATH@philologie.fu-berlin.dbp.de Subject: Goettingen Summer School 4th Summer School of the DGfS (German Society for Linguistics) Goettingen (FRG), 31 August - 16 September 1992 Main topic: Language development - the connection between language change and language acquisition Courses (in English or German): 1. Brigitte Nerlich (U Nottingham): Theorien der Sprachentwicklung: von Darwin bis Diachronie 2. Roger Lass (U Cape Town): Historical phonology 3. Wolfgang U. Wurzel (Berlin): Sprachveraenderung: Natuerlicher grammatischer Wandel 4. Elizabeth Traugott (Stanford U): Grammaticalization 5. Raimo Anttila (UCLA): The semiotoc foundation of linguistic change 6. Hartmut Schmidt (Berlin): Bruchzonen der deutschen Sprachgeschichte: Wortschatz und Wortgebrauch 7. TBA: (Generative approaches to language change) 8. Klaus Mattheier (U Heidelberg): Sozialer und sprachlicher Wandel in der deutschen Sprache 9. TBA: (Subgroups and linguistic change) 10. Suzanne Romaine (Oxford): Pidgins and Creoles: their origin, structure, and acquisition 11. TBA: (First language acquisition: the state of the art) 12. Dan Slobin (UC Berkeley): Language acquisition and language change 13. Elaine Anderson (USC): Language acquisition - language loss 14. Harald Clahsen (U Duesseldorf): Grammatikerwerb: Zur Entwicklung von Flexion und Syntax beim Erst- und Zweitspracherwerb 15. Melissa Bowerman (MPI Nijmegen): The role of cognitive factors in language acquisition 16. Wolfgang Klein (MPI Nijmegen): Zweitspracherwerb Further events: A lecture series (5 talks) on other topics not covered by the courses (language origin, sound change and written language, etc.) A lecture series (5-6 talks) on the interdisciplinary topic "What is development?" (philosophy, history, linguistics, evolutionary biology, developmental psychology) Fees: DM 480 (university employees) DM 240 (students) DM 960 (others) For further information contact: H. Janssen Department of English Humboldtallee 13 Phone: +49-551-397575/397578 D-W-3400 Goettingen, FRG Fax: +49-551-397685 or: N. Fries Department of German Humboldtallee 13 D-W-3400 Goettingen, FRG -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 11:31:04 EST From: Carol Myers-Scotton Subject: African Studies Conference Calling all Africanist linguists. If anyone is interested in presenting a paper on a panel at the African Studies Association conference next Nov 20-23 in Seattle, please contact me. I will need to receive a one-page abstract (with title and author at top) by March lst at the latest. Please contact me for further details. Carol Myers-Scotton at N720001@UNIVSCVM. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 10:10 EST From: SJS97@ALBNYVMS.bitnet Subject: Journal Call for Papers RESEARCH ON LANGUAGE AND SOCIAL INTERACTION, a journal devoted to ethnographic, sociolinguistic, discourse/conversation analytic, and related research, will begin being published as a quarterly beginning in January 1993. The journal will be published by Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. Special subscription rates will be made available to members of various professional associations. For complete details on submitting manuscripts and/or subscriptions, send e-mail directly to: SJS97@ALBNYVMS or ROLSI@ALBNYVMS. -Stuart J. Sigman, Assoc. Editor Research on Lang. and Social Interactin State University of New York, Albany -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-133. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-134. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 173 Subject: 3.134 Linguistics and Popular Press Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 08:25:42 EST From: Geoffrey Russom Subject: Re: 3.126 Proto-World 2) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 9:28:07 EST From: salmons@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Joe Salmons) Subject: Proto-World 3) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 16:53 MST From: CAROLG@CC.UTAH.EDU Subject: Re: 3.126 Proto-World 4) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 17:52:12 -0500 From: lojbab@grebyn.com (Logical Language Group) Subject: Popular Views/Linguistics Education -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 08:25:42 EST From: Geoffrey Russom Subject: Re: 3.126 Proto-World Some responses on this topic sympathize with SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN'S choice of Proto-World and allied topics on the grounds that GB theory is inherently non-interesting to the GAP (Great American Public). This attitude is unjustifiable. SA publishes plenty of stuff on non-sexy topics like number theory. Although the articles may be "watered down," they are not represented as something other than what they are, and do often accurately represent the research interests of the field in general. Part of the problem seems to be a desire among some linguists to dump on "mainstream" (Chomskeyan) linguistics when the opportunity for a cheap shot (or cheap dump) arises. Perhaps the journalists are responding in part to a concept of "heroic resistance" cultivated energentically by the Chomsky-baiters for about three decades now. -- Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 9:28:07 EST From: salmons@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Joe Salmons) Subject: Proto-World Just when we were getting over this issue... Der Spiegel has an article in its latest edition called "Schnalzlaute im Paradies" ('clicks in paradise') dealing with the origins of humankind, in particular Cavalli-Sforza's theory. It is clearly the most bizarre of the numerous articles they've brought in recent years on topics in this area. It assumes, among other things, 'Nostratic, the common proto-language of all Asiatic and European peoples...' and notes in passing 'three competing theories' of language origin, including the 'bow-wow theory' and the 'oooh! theory'. Since no linguist is mentioned, it is unclear where this information (?) came from. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 16:53 MST From: CAROLG@CC.UTAH.EDU Subject: Re: 3.126 Proto-World This is essentially a reply to Lyle Campbell's question about how to get the media to report the "real stuff". I don't know how to get the media to do this, since they must report things people will read. But what's more important is to get out the real stuff, in as many media as possible. There are exciting and challenging and even "sexy" developments in modern linguistics: Petitto's (and colleagues') findings on manual babbling in deaf children (could have gotten a lot more attention in the press -- accompanied by an accessible essay on the significance of such findings for human cognition); the LINGUISTIC significance of the claim that autistic children have normal language; ditto for apparently similar facts with respect to Downs' Syndrome kids; current intensive and productive interactions between linguists and workers in other areas on thorny problems in cognition, etc. etc. I'm not saying that the authors of the scientific papers need also to write a popularized version of such work. But things like this ARE interesting to the general public; we DO have interesting things to say (and teach). I suppose if linguists are going to spend any time writing about the state of linguistics as it enters the 21st century, they'd be doing double duty (with teaching and research, etc.) which probably noone wants to take on. I know I'm saying "someone's gotta do it", but I'm also saying "sorry, it's not gonna be me". Carol Georgopoulos -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 17:52:12 -0500 From: lojbab@grebyn.com (Logical Language Group) Subject: Popular Views/Linguistics Education Michael Newman writes: >I think Andrew Carnie made a good point. I think that perhaps the >popular science press ignores what we consider the central issues of >linguistics because these problems just aren't sexy to those outside the >discipline. This may (or it may not) be related to the fact that during >academic financial crises it seems all too frequent for linguistics >departments to get closed, and that unlike the case of what happens in >Europe, in the US, courses in linguistics are not considered a central >part of most university majors which deal with language, such as foreign >languages, English or Communications. Why? I'm sure that the two situations are related. And I'm sure that linguists other than the historical linguists seldom make an effort to promote their ideas outside the discipline. For example, I would say that a central dogma of linguistics nowadays is that language prescriptivism is wrong, bad, and other pejoratives. But both English and foreign language classes have ignored this rather successfully, and the average person still expects the dictionary or style guide to tell him what language should be, not what it >IS<. I'm going to speculate on the US education system question: In the case of non-linguistic language majors, half are concerned with literature and hence care not a whit for the theoretical underpinnings of language in general - they want to know how the language in use is different from English, not how it is the same, else why not study the literature in translation. Linguistics as practiced in the US is not particularly more relevant to them than it is to other academic disciplines. For other language majors it is probably a lack of time and staff. A one-semester course in linguistics cannot go very deep into the linguistic aspects of any one language, and thus you would need a follow-on course that would teach the application of linguistic theory to each language being studied. Who will teach the teachers - the professor of Russian languages who hasn't taken a linguistics course can't teach the linguistic analysis of Russian? Most universities can't support a linguistics department staff that could provide such specialized service courses. Of course, the concern of other language related disciplines is not competence, but performance, and the orientation of linguistics-as-taught if not as practiced would have to switch more strongly in that direction. I personally think that an introductory linguistics course would be a good general education requirement for all majors, if the course was suitably tailored to teach what all students should know about language. But I think the real problem has to be solved at a much lower level, to teach basic linguistic principles as part of an other-culture awareness curriculum at elementary school levels, and linguistics of ones native language in conjunction with or replacement of some of the prescriptivist teaching that pervades elementary and high school 'grammar' classes. ---- lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 lojbab@grebyn.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-134. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-135. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 146 Subject: 3.135 FYI: Publications Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 92 23:59:55 PST From: brian kariger Subject: New issue of California Linguistic Notes 2) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 12:45 +0100 From: husoc@kap.nl Subject: announcing a new journal -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 92 23:59:55 PST From: brian kariger Subject: New issue of California Linguistic Notes Volume 23, No. 1 of California Linguistic Notes (formerly California Linguistic Newsletter) is now available. * Articles include: "Usage of Comparative '-er' in American and British English", Pam Ballinger; "Putting the 'socio' back into the sociolinguistic enterprise", Joshua A. Fishman; "Almost A Creole: Singapore Colloquial English", Anthea Fraser Gupta; "Bahasa Indonesia: The Easiest Language on Earth?", Donald Glenn Carroll; "The Chakobsa Language", Alan S. Kaye and John Quijada; "Delimiting "re-" Verbs", Lori J. Altmann; "A consonant-final pronominal stem in Tubatulabal", Alexis Manaster Ramer; "The Lubbar Fend", Carleton T. Hodge; "The Phonaestheme as a Linguistic Entity", Pam Ballinger; "Whither [hw]?", Stephen P. Cutts; "Tubatulabal takaah 'quail'", Alexis Manaster Ramer; "Why Transcripts of the Dead Sea Scrolls Had to Be Released", Hershel Shanks; "Qumran Chaos", M. O'Connor. * Reprints include: "An Interview with Joseph Greenberg" by Paul Newman; and articles by George Jochnowitz on "the you-guysing of America" and "they" vs. "he or she". California Linguistic Notes publishes essays, squibs, letters, and reviews on any linguistic topic; also past/future events sections, abstracts, recent publications, jobs, and more. Subscription, $20.00 for USA subscribers; $30.00 overseas (airmail); $10.00 per additional copy sent to the same address. *We seek material for publication and new subscribers.* Free sample: Alan Kaye, Editor Department of Linguistics California State University, Fullerton Fullerton, CA 92634-9480 USA E-mail: akaye@fullerton.edu Brian Kariger, Assoc. Ed. bkariger@aunix.fullerton.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 12:45 +0100 From: husoc@kap.nl Subject: announcing a new journal ANNOUNCING A NEW JOURNAL The first issue of JOURNAL OF EAST ASIAN LINGUISTICS has just been published by Kluwer Academic Publishers in Dordrecht, The Netherlands. EDITORS: C.-T. James Huang S.-Y. Kuroda AREA EDITORS: Kazuko Inoue Chungmin Lee Ting-Chi Tang FREQUENCY: 3x a year SCOPE: Initially, the Journal of East Asian Linguistics is devoted primarily to Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, but theoretical work related to languages of the same area other than these three is not excluded from its scope. The journal is especially interested in the following: 1. Theoretically oriented work on any apsect of the syntax, semantics, pragmatics, phonology, and morphology of an East Asian language. 2. Comparative work among East Asian languages and/or between an East Asian language and any language that contributes to the parametric theory of universal grammar. 3. Formal analysis of any aspect of the grammar at any historical stage of a language or the historical development of any language providing it has a bearing on East Asian languages. 4. Inter- disciplinary contributions from psycholinguistics, neuro- linguistics, and computational linguistics that have a particular bearing on the study of East Asian languages. 5. Remarks on, or replies to, any recent theoretical work related to East Asian linguistics. 6. Shorter notes with original observations that raise questions of analysis and explanation with significant theoretical implications. It is an important policy of the journal to welcome any contribution regardless of the theoretical framework in which the research is carried out. Any piece of work, as long as it provides a formal analysis of observed date, or formulates descriptive generalizations calling for an analysis, will be seriously considered. TABLE OF CONTENTS OF FIRST ISSUE: Editorial Statement MOIRA YIP / Prosidic Morphology in Four Chinese Dialects JOAN MALING and SOOWON KIM / Case Assignment in the Inalienable Possession Construction in Korean MAMORU SAITO / Long Distance Scrambling in Japanese Guidelines for Authors ************************************************************** If you would like to receive a sample copy, please send your full postal address to: husoc@kap.nl and mark your message 'Request for Sample Copy JEAL'. If you have already requested a sample copy, then there is no need to react to this message. Your sample copy request is being processed. ************************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-135. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-136. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 150 Subject: 3.136 Conferences: ILA, Language Development Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 21:52:39 EST From: Michael Newman Subject: ILA 2) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 92 10:15:19 -0500 From: langconf@louis-xiv.bu.edu (BU Conference on Language Development) Subject: BU Conference: Call for Papers -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 21:52:39 EST From: Michael Newman Subject: ILA The 37th Annual Conference of the International Linguistic Association will be held from Friday evening through Sunday afternoon, 24-26 April 1992 in the Intercultural Center at Georgetown University in Washington, DC The theme of conference is "Functional Linguistics." The invited speakers will be Simon Dik, Talmy Givon, Andre Martinet, Kenneth L Pike, and Thomas Sebeok. Conference registration fees are as follows: received BEFORE 15 March 1992 (Preregistration by mail) PROFESSIONAL, $25; STUDENT (with certification) $15 received AFTER 15 March 1992 by mail and on site professional, $30; student (with certification) $20 To preregiste: send your check or money order for the appropriate amount in US dollars payable to the "International Linguistic Association" to: Professor Ruth M. Brend, Conference Chair 3363 Burbank Drive Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105 USA Accomodations may be reserved at the nearby Leavey Conference Center of Georgetown University at the rate of $90/night for double occupancy. Reserva- tions should be made directly by mail or telephone with Leavey Conference Center Attn: Reservations Office 3800 Reservoir Rd. Washington, DC 20057 (202) 687-3200 The conference chair will be happy to arrange room sharing, if desired. Prof. Solomon I Sara SJ, Chair, dept. of Linguistics of Georgetown University is in charge of local arrangements. NOTE: Prior to the ILA Conference, the Annual Georgtown University Roundtable will be held from 20 April (presessions) through 23 April on the topic of "Language, Communication and Social Meaning" For further information, contact: Professor Carol Kreidler Chair, Georgetown University Roundtable School of Languages and Linguistics Washington, DC 20057 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 92 10:15:19 -0500 From: langconf@louis-xiv.bu.edu (BU Conference on Language Development) Subject: BU Conference: Call for Papers CALL FOR PAPERS ****************************************************************************** The 17th Annual Boston University Conference on Language Development October 23, 24 & 25, 1992 * Featured Speakers: George Miller, Princeton University Jean Aitchison, London School of Economics Kenneth Hale, Massachusetts Institute of Technology ****************************************************************************** FIRST AND SECOND LANGUAGE ACQUISITION All topics in the field of language acquisition will be fully considered, including: Bilingualism Literacy Cognition & Language Narrative Creolization Neurolinguistics Discourse Pragmatics Exceptional Language Pre-linguistic Development Input & Interaction Signed Languages Language Disorders Sociolinguistics Lexicon Speech Perception & Production Linguistic Theory (Syntax, Semantics, Phonology, Morphology) REQUIREMENTS 1) Original Research that has never been presented or published 2) 450-word summary for anonymous review 3) 150-word abstract with title, topic, name(s) & affiliation(s) (to appear in conference handbook) SUBMIT 1) Six copies of an anonymous summary, clearly titled 2) Two copies of the abstract 3) One 3 x 5 card stating: i) Title, ii) Topic area, iii) Audiovisual needs And for each author: a) Full Name c) Current address f) Summer address b) Affiliation d) Current phone no. g) Summer phone no. e) e-mail address h) Summer e-mail address Presentations will be 25 minutes long, plus 10 minutes for questions. DEADLINE: All submissions must be received by May 1, 1992*. Please include self-addressed, stamped postcard for acknowledgment of receipt. Notification of acceptance or rejection will be sent by June 30. Pre-registration materials and preliminary schedule will be available in August 1992. Note: All conference papers will be selected on the basis of abstracts submitted. Unfortunately, we are unable to accommodate symposium proposals. Boston University Telephone: (617) 353-3085 Conference on Language Development e-mail: langconf@louis-xiv.bu.edu 138 Mountfort Street Boston, MA 02215 U.S.A. NOTE: You can get seasonal information by sending a message to info@louis-xiv.bu.edu, whereupon you will receive an automated reply. The information distributed through this route is updated periodically. Currently, the information contains the call for papers. In early August, the preliminary program, preregistration form, and hotel information will be available. (If you have a question that you would like to address to a human, please send it to langconf@louis-xiv.bu.edu.) *Please note new dates and deadlines. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-136. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-137. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 83 Subject: 3.137 Queries: Like, Swahili/Yoruba, ESL Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 14:29:43 EST From: grefen@cs.pitt.edu (Gregory Grefenstette) Subject: LIKE LIKE LIKE, THAT THAT THAT 2) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1992 15:12:01 EST From: njsobin@UALR.EDU Subject: translation into swahili & yoruba 3) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 18:29 EST From: "** Tua^'n **" Subject: ESL -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 14:29:43 EST From: grefen@cs.pitt.edu (Gregory Grefenstette) Subject: LIKE LIKE LIKE, THAT THAT THAT Does anyone know of any more English phrases such as People of his like like like him. She said that that that man would leave. where the same lexical item is found thrice repeated? --Gregory Grefenstette -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1992 15:12:01 EST From: njsobin@UALR.EDU Subject: translation into swahili & yoruba I'm making this request for a colleague. Can anyone out there translate the phrase "We are all related" into Swahili and into Yoruba? In advance, Thanks! Nick Sobin (njsobin@ualr.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 18:29 EST From: "** Tua^'n **" Subject: ESL Hi all you ESL experts! I am trying to help a friend improve his English Pronunciation. He is working full time for a Military Contractor, and he is working on his MS in EE. His English pronunciation is poor and I am trying to find some tapes, books, or both to help him improve his pronunciation. Any ideas? He is Vietnamese by the way. Is it to late to change his pronunciation? I heard about the Center for Applied Linguistics, I heard they have a book called "English Pronunciation for Speakers of Vietnamese" but I can't find it. Does anyone know how to get in touch with the Center for Applied Linguistics? Thanks in advance! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Tru*o*?ng ddo^.i * JFT%NCCIBM1.BITNET@NCSUVM.CC.NCSU.EDU ban Phu.ng Hoa\ng * 1200 6th AVE., 15th Floor, SO-155 TTT * Seattle, WA 98101 Tua^'n Sutherland * (206) 553-1142, or FTS 399-1142 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-137. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-138. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 93 Subject: 3.138 Discussion-Summary: Iconicity; Mac Keyboards Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 92 19:24:20 MEZ From: Martin Haase Subject: iconicity in deictics (summary) 2) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 23:36:22 CST From: Eric Schiller Subject: Re: 3.116 Queries: Cognitive science courses, Keyboard entry -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 92 19:24:20 MEZ From: Martin Haase Subject: iconicity in deictics (summary) Thanks to all of you that answered my query about deictic iconicity (I have added a list of contributors at the end of this summary). As you remember, I started with the following hypothesis, concerning demonstratives and local (deictic) adverbs: "Typically, smaller or greater distance from the speaker/hearer (the 'deictic point') is indicated by closer or more open vowels respectively." I got very much data supporting this hypothesis and some data against (you will find the list of examples for both kinds of evidence below). None of the data seems to disconfirm the following stricter version of the iconicity principle: "if the forms showing different degrees of deictic distance are closely related phonologically (minimal pairs or near minimal pairs), the vowels of the forms for smaller deictic distance are closer than (or equal to) the vowels for greater deictic distance." It goes without saying that the hypothesis does not hold for vowels which fulfill other functions, albeit in the deictic form (e.g. agreement, as in the case of Swahili classifier vowels). For the case of equal vowels, Aaron Broadwell raised the interesting point of tonal iconicity (in Zapotec). In the case of Latin, one may think of consonantal iconicity. Both matters need further discussion. If anybody has corrections to the presented material or further evidence, please let me know. Of course, I'm especially anxious to get disconfirming evidence for my stricter hypothesis. Furthermore, Stavros Macrakis and I would like to know more about the difference between _qui_ and _qua_ or _li_ and _la_ in Italian, and I am curious about other semantic components getting mixed up with deictic meaning (e.g. 'out of sight' or direction, as in Athabaskan). You can write to me, and I shall send another summary to 'The Linguist'. ------------------------------------------------------------------ 2) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 23:36:22 CST From: Eric Schiller Subject: Re: 3.116 Queries: Cognitive science courses, Keyboard entry Keyboards: One solution is to use Fontographer to open the font, rearrange the layout (and modify symbols!) to your heart's content, and then generate a copy for your own use. Not only does this work for all Mac systems, but to a large extent the font can be ported to Windows as well simply by generating the font in PC format. ResEdit is not so scary for straightforward tasks, and might do. The drawback is that you then have to carry your resources with you when working on other macs, and this has become unwieldy. Carrying a font is much easier. I am fairly certain that keyboard remapping routines are available on Compuserve, but I haven't looked at system 7 compatibility. Of course, Quick Keys allows keyboard remaps, but as with ResEdit, it is not so portable (you would have to make sure every machine you use has Quick Keys installed. Eric Schiller -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-138. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-139. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 144 Subject: 3.139 Wat was was... Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 13:43:28 GMT From: Ivan A Derzhanski Subject: Wat was was...? (was Is, is, ...) 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 13:40:30 EST From: bert peeters Subject: 3.121 Was was was 3) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 17:27:02 -0600 From: mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) Subject: eer was was was .... -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 13:43:28 GMT From: Ivan A Derzhanski Subject: Wat was was...? (was Is, is, ...) William Marslen-Wilson posted a "fragment that was circulating in The Netherlands in the early 1980's" and appealed for the exact interpretation. I forwarded it to a colleague of mine, a native Dutch speaker, and obtained the following (her lines are marked with chevrons): > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 12:52:48 GMT > From: Laura Joosten > Subject: Re: In de Linguist List gevonden... > To: iad@ed.cogsci > In-Reply-To: iad@ed.cogsci's message of Sat, 8 Feb 92 10:57:14 GMT CONTRIBUTION TO TENSE-LOGIC Op een bij Er was een bij te's-Gravenhage Die antwoord wist op alle vragen Toen men hem moeilijk genoeg "Wat was was eer was was was?" vroeg > Wat was was eer was was was > > the second, the third and the fourth was are not really verbs. They > are just used as names to refer to the verb. Dutch is an SOV language > with verb second in main clauses, so in main clauses the finite verb > is the second constituent of the sentences. All other verbs and all > verbs in embedded clauses appear sentence final. (That is, "Wat was _was_ eer _was_ `was' was?".) werd hij winnaar van de quiz met "Eer was was was was was is." > Eer was was was was was is > First, second and fourth was are used referentially, is is used > referentially as well and the third was is a real verb. I hope this > is understandable. (That is, "Eer _was_ `was' was _was_ was `is'".) Ivan A Derzhanski -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 13:40:30 EST From: bert peeters Subject: 3.121 Was was was > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 12:49 GMT > From: "NAME " William Marslen-Wilson "" > CONTRIBUTION TO TENSE-LOGIC > > Op een bij > > Er was een bij te's-Gravenhage > Die antwoord wist op alle vragen > Toen men hem moeilijk genoeg > "Wat was was eer was was was?" vroeg > werd hij winnaar van de quiz > met "Eer was was was was was is." > > This was attributed to Kees Stip. Apparently, with the right > intonational bracketing, the final sequence of five "was" and one > "is" is quite acceptable. For the exact interpretation I'd have > to appeal to some reader whose Dutch is less rusty than mine. Of > course, not all those "was" may have the same status. I can't make much sense of the title (literally "On a bee") - I suspect it would have to be "Over een bij" ("About a bee"). Anyway, here is an English translation of the verse itself: There was a bee in The Hague Which knew an answer to all questions. When it was asked, difficult enough, "What was wax before wax was wax?" it got the first prize in the quiz with "Before wax was wax wax was is" The pun is lost in translation: the fourth 'was' in the last line is homonymous between the bee product called in English "wax" and the simple past tense of "zijn" ("to be)". --------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 17:27:02 -0600 From: mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) Subject: eer was was was .... Given the recent postings on strings of the same word in Dutch sentences, I can't resist the opportunity for humor. Haven't been on this all that long, so perhaps the moderators will delete this if it's been posted recently. It was circulating when I was at Yale around 1980, but I'm not sure exactly who to blame for it (and the most likely two culprits are not on the list and so cannot defend their reputations). [The context is a discussion of results on an English writing exam, or something similar, which takes place in Britain] John, where Mary had had "had," had had "had had." "Had had" had had the examiners' approval. I have even run into people who could understand the spoken version of this, if I was careful about the intonation and specified the context. Margaret Fleck -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-139. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-140. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 94 Subject: 3.140 -ish, Def Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 08:32:33 +0000 Subject: -ish From: "R.Hudson" 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 13:24:38 GMT From: Dr M Sebba Subject: Ish 3) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 16:26:13 PDT Subject: "Def" From: a-peggym@microsoft.COM -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 08:32:33 +0000 Subject: -ish From: "R.Hudson" Margaret Fleck notes that -ish can be added after a sentence, and expresses surprise since it isn't normally an independent word. Ok, it may not be independent in the way that, say, DOG is; but it combines quite freely with syntactically-formed phrases, especially time-phrases: half past seven-ish eight o'clock-ish nine-thirty-ish This in itself suggests that it may be a separate word, combined with a whole phrase - i.e. a clitic along the lines of 's, as in _the king of Spain's daughter_. It would be very interesting to see how any of our existing generative grammar theories could accommodate the restriction to a phrase which defines a time of day. Dick Hudson Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics, University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT (071) 387 7050 ext 3152 home: (081) 340 1253 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 13:24:38 GMT From: Dr M Sebba Subject: Ish In response to Margaret Fleck's note about Ish: it's widespread. My students do it. But I've no idea how well established it is, or what regions/classes/age groups it covers. Plenty of interesting research to be done here. I'll try to interest someone in doing a dissertation on it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 16:26:13 PDT Subject: "Def" From: a-peggym@microsoft.COM I received three possible etymologies of "def" from Linguist readers (thanks!): (1) The Afrikaaner Hypothesis: "deftig" means 'smart' or 'chic' in Afrikaaner. Respondent was not sure of use in Nederlands. (2) The Death Hypothesis: possibly an alteration of the word "death", with final /th/ becoming /f/. The semantic connection: the phrase 'to death' is used to mean 'extremely', as in `They discussed it to death', `I love you to death', etc. We also say related things like 'to die for' meaning 'extremely good'. (3) The Definite Hypothesis: possibly a back-formation of "definitely" or "definitive", on the model of "fab" for fabulous. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-140. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-141. Tue 11 Feb 1992. Lines: 94 Subject: 3.141 The Latest from the Popular Press Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 18:19:21 EST From: rws@mbeya.research.att.com (Richard Sproat) Subject: The Popular Press -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 18:19:21 EST From: rws@mbeya.research.att.com (Richard Sproat) Subject: The Popular Press The very latest from the popular press: r a AM-GrammarGene 02-10 0463 AM-Grammar Gene,0560 Gene Controls Learning Of Grammar, Researchers Say By PAUL RECER AP Science Writer CHICAGO (AP) - A single dominant gene controls the ability to learn grammar, said a researcher who studied a family whose members don't know to add ``ed'' for the past tense of verbs or ``s'' for plural nouns. Myrna Gopnik of Montreal's McGill University said Monday the studies show that in all other ways the members are intellectually normal. But, she said, ``Language is a problem they solve by sheer wit.'' She said people lacking the grammar gene ``are worn out just by talking'' because they must continually struggle with verb tense and noun plurals. ``The hardest part for them is people thinking that they are stupid,'' Gopnik said. ``They are not. You have to think of them as people without a native language.'' Gopnik reported on her research at the meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Steven Pinker of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology said it was first suggested in the 1960s that there was a genetic component to learning language and that recent studies, such as that by Gopnik, supports that belief. He said his research shows that learning words and learning to apply the rules of grammar are two different functions springing from different parts of the brain. People with a normal grammar gene naturally learn language rules that make verbs past tense or turn nouns into plurals, Gopnik said. People lacking the gene, however, must learn through another intellectual process how to change verbs and nouns. ``They will say `today I walk, yesterday I ...' and they don't know how to finish,'' said Gopnik. ``For some reason they don't build the general rules of language'' such as adding the ``ed'' to mak walk past tense. Gopnik studied a family in which, of 30 members across three generations, 16 suffered from the inability to learn grammar rules. Otherwise, the 16 were normal, as were the unaffected family members. ``They have not found a genetic marker for this gene,'' said Gopnik. ``But we have very good evidence that it is genetic.'' Inheriting the language defect follows classic rules of genetics, said Gopnik. A member of the family has a 30 percent chance of inheriting the language problem, while the rest of the population has a 3 percent chance. Studies by other researchers have supported the existence of a grammar gene, she said. One showed that if one identical twin suffered a language difficulty, there was an 80 percent chance that the other would also, said Gopnik. For non-identical twins, there was only a 35 percent chance that both would have the problem. Thomas G. Bever of the University of Rochester said his research shows that families with left-handed members may inherit a tendency to process language differently. He said that righthanders with no left-handed family members are more senstive to the grammatical structures of language than are righthanders with left-handed relatives. Right handers with some left-handed relatives can recall and use individual words more skillfully than members of an all right-handed family, said Bever. This suggests, he said, that there is an inherited or genetic component to naturally learning grammar rules or in the ability to use individual words. AP-NY-02-10-92 1749EST -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-141. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-142. Thu 13 Feb 1992. Lines: 206 Subject: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 92 19:10:17 EST From: Michael Newman Subject: airplane talk 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 13:11:32 EDT From: maxwell%jaars@utafll.uta.edu Subject: Query re language learning among retarded 3) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 09:37:12 EST From: elc9j@prime.acc.Virginia.EDU Subject: query: sociolinguistic registers 4) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 11:57:37 EST From: "Bruce E. Nevin" Subject: Query: brain research 5) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 10:21:36 -0800 From: suzanne@garnet.berkeley.edu Subject: off the wall 6) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:35:51 CST From: Michael Henderson Subject: Proceedings wanted 7) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1992 9:04:17 HST From: Fran Karttunen Subject: Re: 3.134 Linguistics and Popular Press -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 92 19:10:17 EST From: Michael Newman Subject: airplane talk Has anyone ever noticed how on planes the announcements almost always use a stress pattern normally used for emphatic forms of verbs. For example, We WILL arrive at LaGuardia at 8:00 There ARE unusually strong winds. We HAVE reached the cruising altitude. We ARE the 23rd in line for take off. As you MAY have noticed we ARE in a holding pattern. My father (an archprescriptivist) pointed this out to me complaining about it, and I DID ask an airline steward about it, but he couldn't figure out what I was talking about. So it ISN'T an explicit part of their training as far as I can tell. I have also noticed this pattern occasionally on subways. There IS a sick passanger at a train at Queens Plaza. So we WILL be delayed. This 'R' train WILL be making express stops only till 179th street. I should point out that in all these cases the normal informational pattern WOULD seem to call for an unmarked stress pattern. For example the 'R' usually makes local stops, so the fact that is EXPRESS should receive the most stress. The same could be said for the most of the airplane quotes. By the way, these are not real examples, but enough CAN be collected on any flight. Michael Newman -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 13:11:32 EDT From: maxwell%jaars@utafll.uta.edu Subject: Query re language learning among retarded In a recent reply on the Proto-World problems, Carol Georgopoulos writes: >There are exciting and challenging and even "sexy" developments in >modern linguistics:...the LINGUISTIC significance of the claim >that autistic children have normal language; ditto for apparently >similar facts with respect to Downs' Syndrome kids... In my (very) generative linguistics training, I had always heard that language acquisition was largely independent of general intelligence, and I have faithfully repeated this statement without really knowing what I was talking about. I have nonetheless been impressed at how our (normal) children have learned the "difficult" things (e.g. constraints on wh-movement), even when they couldn't seem to learn some of the "simple" things (e.g. irregular past participles), in agreement with the idea that the grammar learning faculty (as opposed to, say, the ability to memorize irregular forms) is innate and distinct from general intelligence. Could someone fill me in on the truth? Do Downs Syndrome children (or other retarded children) learn language at the same rate as others, or do they learn more slowly but end up at about the same level? Are there some areas where they always remain behind (e.g. vocabulary, irregular morphology)? By the way, I think this sort of thing should appeal to the general population, as it has real implications for the worth of the individual, despite whatever handicaps s/he may have. Replies can come to me (at the address below), and I can summarize for the net, if there's interest. ******************************************************** Mike Maxwell Phone: (704) 843-6369 JAARS Internet:maxwell@jaars.sil.org Box 248 Waxhaw, NC 28173 ******************************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 09:37:12 EST From: elc9j@prime.acc.Virginia.EDU Subject: query: sociolinguistic registers A graduate student who is studying the sociolinguistic register of bus drivers requests references to work on related registers (e.g. CB radio talk) or on register in general. Please send suggestions to me, and I will post a summary to the net. Ellen Contini-Morava -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 11:57:37 EST From: "Bruce E. Nevin" Subject: Query: brain research Is there a good place to look for a survey and summary of research into brain function and language capacities (lesions, aphasia, etc.)? I heard a bit of an interview with Myrna Gopnik on the radio yesterday, in which she described the phenomena discussed in 3.141. Anyone know where this research is reported in the literature? Please reply to me, I'll summarize to the list. Bruce Nevin bn@bbn.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 10:21:36 -0800 From: suzanne@garnet.berkeley.edu Subject: off the wall Does anyone out there know the origin of the expression 'off the wall'? Is it, as someone suggested, from some racquet sport? --Suzanne Fleischman suzanne@ucbgarne.berkeley.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:35:51 CST From: Michael Henderson Subject: Proceedings wanted A student of mine is desperately seeking a copy of New Sounds 90: Pro- ceedings of the Amsterdam Symposium on the Acquisition of Second-Lan- guage Speech, ed. by J. Leather & A. James. Appears to be published by U. of Amsterdam Press. Our Interlibrary Loan can't help; can anyone out there? Michael M. T. Henderson Linguistics Dept., U. of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045-2140 mmth@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1992 9:04:17 HST From: Fran Karttunen Subject: Re: 3.134 Linguistics and Popular Press This morning there was a report on NPR about a paper just presented to the AAS (I think). I missed it, but it was reported to me by a nonlinguist that the paper was by some geneticists who discovered a family in which half the members "couldn't do" past tenses and plural forms (like "walked" and "pencils"). I asked whether this was supposed to be some sort of cognitive problem or a pronunciation problem or what, but I couldn't get a clear answer, just that the geneticists are all excited about it. Did anyone out there catch it? And what was the paper actually claiming? Fran Karttunen -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-142. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-143. Thu 13 Feb 1992. Lines: 242 Subject: 3.143 Linguistics And The Media Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 17:07 GMT From: Richard Ogden Subject: (un)popular linguistics 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:18:43 EST From: Brian D Joseph Subject: Posting for LINGUIST 3) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1992 12:06 MST From: CAROLG@CC.UTAH.EDU Subject: Re: 3.141 The Latest from the Popular Press 4) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 00:02:43 EST From: Larry Horn Subject: Re: 3.134 Linguistics and Popular Press 5) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 11:28:26 +0000 From: Dyvik@hf.uib.no Subject: Grammar Genes and Language Glands -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 17:07 GMT From: Richard Ogden Subject: (un)popular linguistics There has been a vigorous discussion about why linguistics does not get the attention from the press, TV and other media which linguists think their work deserves; and when linguistics is reported, it seems to be one-sided and unbalanced. I feel that Martti Nyman put it very well; he commented that the terminology in which linguistics is couched hardly makes for easy reading, even to a specialist. I've tried to read many articles in journals and been bogged down by the bad writing. I've even got fed up of the many invented oft-repeated axamples which are so common in introductory text books and even less introductory ones. Conference proceedings are disappointing more often than not, to the point that it's hard to believe some of them have passed through committees. And part of our 'modern' culture is that we have such a profusion of written material, in all forms, that we probably repsect it less than we might have done even a few years ago; it's disposable. I have recently been re-reading some of the old papers and books, things like Saussure, Twaddell, Firth... and the impression is much more of a culture which was less aggressive, less dogmatic than our present one. It's only an impresion and others will surely disagree. But the pioneer attitude, where more questions are asked than answers given is something which I just don't find in modern linguistics; maybe not because it isn't there, but because it's hidden underneath the rhetoric. In phonetics (my own field) I think there are lots of things that 'ordinary people' would find interesting, like spectrograms, how sounds are articulated, why foreigners 'speak funny' and so on; other areas of linguistics surely also have interesting things to say (like the sign language babbling that was mentioned). But most of the discussion so far ("the things we are proud of and would like to be known for", to put it a bit rudely) has centred on 'big issues' ike universalism and methodology; these things are not really within the scope of the everday which are basically fascinating to most people. I would like to finish by reminding us that everyone speaks a language and therefore considers themself to be an expert. Witness the columns on language usage which appear in most newspapers and magazines from time to time; the way in which linguistics is relegated to a relatively unimportant position in the world-view of many working in speech technology who are themselves engineers or computer scientists and so forth. We have to remind ourselves of the reality, which is that however expert we deem ourselves to be, 'everyone else' thinks they know just as much. So we've got an uphill struggle. Richard Ogden -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:18:43 EST From: Brian D Joseph Subject: Posting for LINGUIST Regarding Bob Chevalier's comment in LINGUIST 3.134 regarding the desirability of trying to introduce a consideration of linguistic principles into elementary school curricula, I couldn't agree more. >From my experience with introductory linguistics courses at the undergraduate level, it seems that we are fighting a losing battle trying to dispel myths and misperceptions about language that students have accumulated over a dozen or more years of schooling and living with just one 10- or 12-week term course. My impression is that students will learn what to say about prescriptivisim, for instance, for the purposes of satisfying their linguistics instructor on an exam or the like, but will then promptly forget it or not heed any such message that might be offered in the classroom. Rather than requiring more linguistics of every undergraduate (and I realize that requiring even one course is not a part of most universities' curricula (at OSU, introductory linguistics is an option towards one distributional requirement), it seems to me that the solution would be to extend linguistics into earlier stages of schooling, as Bob suggests. --Brian D. Joseph, The Ohio State University (bjoseph@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1992 12:06 MST From: CAROLG@CC.UTAH.EDU Subject: Re: 3.141 The Latest from the Popular Press That bit about genes controlling grammar was also on NPR this morning (Tuesday, 11 Feb). It was a clearer story than the AP one, and I, for one, thought it was quite respectably done. Carol Georgopoulos -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 00:02:43 EST From: Larry Horn Subject: Re: 3.134 Linguistics and Popular Press Re the representation of linguistic issues in the media: I don't have anything of substance to contribute to the question of whether or not GB theory is sexy enough to cross the threshhold into Scientific American. But despite the current wave of interest in the popular press in the Nostratic debate, I haven't heard of any cinematic projects in that area. On the other hand, I will be filmed shortly as part of a documentary entitled "Off the Floor, Off the Wall: A Doorstop Documentary", which is--as the title implies--a documentary on doorstops. My contribution will be to serve as a linguistic expert on the word itself, and/or its subcomponents. Unfortunately, I haven't come up with a whole lot of particular interest so far, and I'd love to hear from anybody out there with strong feelings about doorstops, "doorstop", "door", "stop", or anything related to these important issues. (I promise to give full credit to contributors, if any--but you'll have to be quick. Please send suggestions to me directly, and I'll summarize on the net.) After all, it's not every day when linguists are consulted by filmmakers, even if a documentary on doorstops is unlikely to draw as wide an audience as "My Fair Lady" with its Ladefoged-produced sheets of Visible Speech. There are the foreign residuals though, not to mention the video rentals... Larry Horn -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 11:28:26 +0000 From: Dyvik@hf.uib.no Subject: Grammar Genes and Language Glands Reality is catching up with parody. Richard Sproat's posting of the newspaper article on the Grammar Gene bears a striking resemblance to a rather successful hoax perpetrated by the Norwegian poet Andre Bjerke back in 1954. Under the assumed name of cand. philol. Martin Storhaug (a very convincing-sounding name in this country) he wrote an article entitled (in translation) "The physiological basis of speech" and had it accepted in a major newspaper, where it remained uncontradicted for the two weeks he waited before letting the cat out of the bag - in spite of phony references to real local linguists etc. Here are a few central passages (in my translation): "[...] The renowned etymologist Professor Howard E. Prince at Yale University in U.S.A. has for many years been carrying out investigations concerning the most widespread speech defects. He claims to have found correlations between a group of motoric speech defect types and certain peculiarities in the formation of dialects. Thus in 1950 he received a large Rockefeller prize for his treatise "The Defects of Speech and their Conformity to certain Peculiarities of American Dialects". While he was carrying out these investigations he stumbled upon another problem which turned out to be of a medical nature. This is where we arrive at the intersection of two research disciplines: the philologist and the scientist meet quite unexpectedly at a crossroads. In the spring of 1951 Professor Prince was staying in the region around Ogden City in the state of Utah. There he had discovered a phenomenon which appeared to be a collective speech defect, in that a very high percentage of the older section of the population were suffering from stammering. Professor Prince examined the type of stammering involved, and found a large number of common phonetic features. He arrived at the conclusion that this could not possibly be a coincidence, but so far he had no scientific theory to explain the phenomenon. At the same time as Professor Prince was carrying out these investigations a German-American physiologist was trying to find the solution to a totally different problem: the riddle of the thymus gland. Glandula Thymus is a closed gland located in the front part of the thorax cavity, and its function within the organism has hitherto been unknown; it has simply been assumed that its excretions enter the bloodstream. The physiologist Wilfred Appergau assumed that thymus has a hormonal function, and in the spring of 1951 he actually succeeded in isolating the thymus gland hormon chemically. He called it "thymusine". And this is where the researchers meet at the crossroads - since it turned out that thymusine influences the language centre in the cortex. Indeed, it appeared that this newly-discovered hormone has a similar influence on word-formation as that of the thyroid gland's thyroxine on metabolism and that of the pituitary gland hormone on growth! Even before Professor Prince met Dr. Appergau he had entertained the idea that the collective speech defect in the Ogden region might be caused by local nutritional conditions. Now the two scientists coordinated their results, which turned out to match like a lock to a key. Dr. Appergau was able to give a knock-down proof of his theory by giving the speech-impeded inhabitants of the Ogden region thymusine injections. The result, amazingly enough, was that all stammering disappeared after about 10 injections. Dr. Appergau also succeeded in showing that this collective speech defect was caused by the chemical composition of the drinking water. Just as iodine-poor drinking water in certain districts lead to collective disturbances of the thyroid gland (Basedows Disease), the absence of certain other important substances may have a corresponding effect on the thymus gland and - for example - manifest itself as collective stammering. These discoveries led Professor Prince to new and revolutionary views concerning the origin of dialects - views which he so far has summarized in his most recent work: "The Organic Origin of Dialects" (The World Publishing Company, Cleveland and New York, 1953). [...]" Nobody protested against this rubbish, in spite the absurd consequences of the reported theories: Bjerke points out that if dialects are speech defects, and if speech defects can be cured by hormonal injections, then we should be able to cure dialects at the nearest hospital. And language teaching might take the form of some sort of compulsory inoculation. He explains the seeming acceptance of the article by its boring and pseudo-scientific style. If you state outright that dialects are caused by speech defects, anybody will se that it is nonsense. If, on the other hand, you state that Professor Howard E. Prince at Yale "claims to have found correlations between a group of motoric speech defect types and certain peculiarities of dialect formation", the case is different. Bjerke suggests that especially the word "motoric" may have done the trick. Well, none of us would have been taken in today, of course. But perhaps genes are more convincing than glands these days? Helge Dyvik --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-143. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-144. Thu 13 Feb 1992. Lines: 220 Subject: 3.144 FYI: Publication, Lecture Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1992 13:44 MET From: Harry van der Hulst Subject: For the Listserv 2) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1992 16:34 MET From: Koenraad de Smedt Subject: address change 3) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 20:00:31 EST From: Henry Kucera Subject: Grammar Checking 4) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 09:14 CET From: Suzanne Romaine Subject: for the listserv -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1992 13:44 MET From: Harry van der Hulst Subject: For the Listserv ============================================================ Why not submit (some of) your work to a high quality journal like T H E L I N G U I S T I C R E V I E W ? ============================================================ Editors: Harry van der Hulst (Leiden), Jonathan Kaye (London), Robert May (Irvine), Yukio Otsu (Tokyo), Laurie Tuller (Tours) Editorial address: Harry van der Hulst (managing editor), Department of General Linguistics, University of Leiden, PO Box 9515, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands Since its resurrection in 1990 (Volume 7), THE LINGUISTIC REVIEW has published a great number of good quality papers, but we can use more material and, for the time being, guarantee reasonable quick publication of accepted submissions. Articles, review articles and squibs are welcome. Volume 8 (1991) contains a triple theme issue (2-4), which brings together most of the papers which were presented at GLOW Leiden (1991). The theme of the conference and of the triple special TLR issue is HEADS. Guest editors of the issue: F. Beukema and M. den Dikken. The following articles appear in this special issue: M. den Dikken & F. Beukema, 'Heads - an introduction' H. Borer, 'The causative-inchoative alternation: a case study in parallel morphology' R. Campbell, 'Tense and agreement in different tenses' H. Goad, 'Dependency and comp;e;mentarity in vowel geometry' M.T. Guasti, 'Incorporation, excorporation and lexical properties of causative heads' L. Haegeman & R. Zanuttini, 'Negative heads and the NEG criterion' P. Law, 'Verb movement, expletive replacement and head government' G. Piggott, 'Apocope and the licensing of empty headed syllables' M.L. Rivero, 'Long head movement and negation: Serbo- Croatian vs. Slovak and Czech' A. Rouveret, 'Functional categories and agreement' M. Speas, 'Functional heads and the inflectional morphemes' The first issue of volume 8 (1991) contains: J. Frampton, 'Relativized Minimality, A Review' E. Hoekstra, 'X-bar theory and licensing mechanisms' Z. Penner & A. Bader, 'Main clause phenomena in embedded clauses: the licensing of embedded V2 clauses in Bernese Swiss German' D. Schlindwein, 'Reduplication in lexical phonology: Javanese Plural Reduplication' In Volume 7 (1990) we published the following papers: K. Demuth, 'Locatives, impersonals and expletives in Sesotho' C. Gussenhoven & J. van de Weijer, 'On V-place spreading vs. feature spreading in English historical phonology' L. Haegeman, 'Subject pronouns and subject clitics in West Flemish' J. Harris & J. Kaye, 'A tale of two cities: London glottaling and New York tapping' T. Hoekstra & R. Mulder, 'Unergatives as copular verbs: locational and existential predication' N. Hornstein & A. Weinberg, 'The necessity of LF' H. Jacobs, 'On the markedness of bounded stress systems' R. Larson, 'Extraction and multiple selection in PP' R. May, 'A note on quantifier absorption' H. Nakajima, 'Secondary predication' H. Nakajima, 'Another response to Kiss' M. Nespor, 'Vowel deletion in Italian: the organization of the phonological component' J. Ouhalla, 'Sentential negation, relativized minimality and the aspectual status of auxiliaries' For more information, contact any of the editors, or write to the editorial office of THE LINGUISTIC REVIEW: Harry van der Hulst (managing editor) Department of General Linguistics University of Leiden PO Box 9515 2300 RA Leiden the Netherlands For subscriptions, please contact the publisher: Mouton de Gruyter -Postfach 11 02 40, 1000 Berlin 11, Germany (Main office) -200 Saw Mill River Road, Hawthorne, NY 10532, USA (for North America) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1992 16:34 MET From: Koenraad de Smedt Subject: address change Change of address On February 1, 1992, Prof. Dr. Gerard Kempen, Dr. Koenraad de Smedt and Ir. Theo Vosse left the University of Nijmegen to join the Psychology Department of the University of Leiden (Experimental Psychology Unit, Cognitive Psychology chair). Their new address is: University of Leiden Experimental Psychology Unit P.O. Box 9555 2300 RB Leiden The Netherlands E-mail: kempen/desmedt/vosse@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl Telephone: +31 (71) 27 3834 (Kempen) +31 (71) 27 3407 (De Smedt/Vosse) +31 (71) 27 3646 (Secretary) Telefax: +31 (71) 27 3619 The Experimental Psychology Unit is located in the P. de la Court building, Wassenaarseweg 52, at 5 minutes walking distance from the railway station. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 20:00:31 EST From: Henry Kucera Subject: Grammar Checking Microsoft Word 5.0 for the Mac and Word 2.0 for Windows now contains a new spelling corrector and, perhaps of more interest to linguists, a grammar corrector. I am sorry to say that tha Mac Word 5.0 has some bugs in it (not all present in the Windows version), e.g. it does not correct the very common typo of keying in "form" instead of "from" (and vice versa). This works quite well in the Windows version. Clearly, this is a grammar problem involving a parse, not something that a word-based spelling checker can catch. There are other bugs as well but this is understandable since this a first implementation. If you have any comments on spelling and/or grammar in Microsoft Word, please let me know (Henry@Brownvm.Bitnet or Henry_Kucera@Brown.Edu) and I will do my best to have them corrected in an upgrade (no guarantees). Many thanks, Henry Kucera. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 09:14 CET From: Suzanne Romaine Subject: for the listserv A course on Pidgin and Creole Languages will be taught by Suzanne Romaine (Oxford) at the University of Hawaii at Hilo during the summer session (June 16-July 28). For further information, contact CCECS, University of Hawaii at Hilo, Hilo, Hawaii 96720, or Suzanne Romaine (nossr1mvs.udac.uu.se). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-144. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-145. Sat 15 Feb 1992. Lines: 166 Subject: 3.145 Intonation In Announcements Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Thu, 13 FEB 92 14:17:24 GMT From: DJ_GRADDOL@vax.acs.open.ac.uk Subject: RE: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition 2) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 14:23 GMT From: Richard Ogden Subject: aeroplane talk 3) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 09:44 EST From: "I'm not short, merely vertically challenged." Subject: Re: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition 5) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 21:03:21 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Hopper Subject: Re: 3.142 Airplane Talk 6) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 16:39 EST From: DERBYSHIRE@zodiac.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Thu, 13 FEB 92 14:17:24 GMT From: DJ_GRADDOL@vax.acs.open.ac.uk Subject: RE: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition Subject: Michael Newman's airplane talk Is not the intonational pattern Michael Newman talks of (emphatic stress in plane announcements) part of a more general style used widely by announcers in stores, public places, switchboard operators and the like? I'm not sure whether the stress is best described as 'emphatic', but stress does seem to fall ON non lexical items including, frequently, prepositions. I have been developing a hypothesis that the phenomena is linked to 'voice' (in the Bakhtinian sense). People reading scripts, performing institutional rituals, who are not speaking in their 'own' voice and who might like to disassociate the 'self' from the message (particularly the coding of affect and pragmatic commitments which are encoded in intonation) may find the strategy attractive. There again, it might just be an irritating fashion. David Graddol Open University -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 14:23 GMT From: Richard Ogden Subject: aeroplane talk This 'aeroplane talk' style is surely more than planes and trains and announcements? There is a whole load of stuff that people do in this style - stressing prepositions, using the words 'basically' and 'obviously' and any complicated word where a simple one will do. And saying the same things over and over again using slightly different words. There was a programme on TV a few weeks ago (BBC2) looking at people's homes. One woman had done out her fireplace in 'Georgian' style: 'we did buy the tiles from B&Q... we do think the fireplace IS the focal point OF the room, where your eyes focus on as soon AS you come in...' (almost a direct quote; it was so funny it was memorable). There's a particular voice quality that goes with it too - like lowered larynx and breathy or something like that. Oh yes and an accent that's not quite posh enough but not what you'd call 'common' (sorry about the snobbery, but it is part of the social repertoire). Perhaps this way of talking is for those who want to be seen to be better than they really think they are? Richard Ogden PS The comedian Victoria Wood has got this style to a tee; she uses it for her sketches of women selling make-up in posh department stores. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 09:44 EST From: "I'm not short, merely vertically challenged." Subject: Re: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition On "airplane talk" such as "We WILL be delayed," etc. The only thing I can figure out about this curious stressing of the meaningless is that it gives a sort of overall "honk" or "authority" to the message while still preserving a kind of "detachment," "impartiality," "politeness," or "dignity," by virtue of avoiding any REAL emphasis on any issue of SUBSTANCE. It's like the spokesperson is signalling us energetically that this stuff is important and sending the "I'm cool" message simultaneously. -- Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 21:03:21 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Hopper Subject: Re: 3.142 Airplane Talk On airplane talk: it isn't just auxiliaries that get stressed; prepositions do, too ('...until the aircraft HAS come to a complete stop AT the gate.') Moreover, there's do-insertion everywhere ('At this time we DO ask that you DO put your trays and chairs IN the upright position'). A (written) regulation is being cited, and the announcer is taking responsibility not for the content of the regulation but only for urging its implementation. I think this sort of intonation (peaks on auxiliaries and prepositions) is characteristic of other situations where paying customers have to be asked to conform to a regulation, too. You hear it from tour guides, for example: "We DO ask that you DO NOT step past the red ropes IN the bed-chamber..."; here, "Don't step past the red ropes in the bed-chamber" would be taken as an act of assertion on the part of the guide, and hence challengable, rather than one referrable to a higher authority, and hence unchallengeable. The unusual intonation sort of dislocates the utterance, almost like putting it in someone else's mouth, comparable to reading it out loud from a written source. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 16:39 EST From: DERBYSHIRE@zodiac.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: 3.142 Queries: Registers, Acquisition Concerning airplane talk, this seems to be some sort of growing trend among people who have to address the public. Listen to any number of talk shows from the NY area, and you'll hear the host say something like "I AM Bill Bresnan......." Who said that you WEREN'T? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-145. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-146. Sat 15 Feb 1992. Lines: 109 Subject: 3.146 Queries: Gangs, Phonics, Place Names, Replicability Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: 13 Feb 92 11:31:57 EST Subject: REQUEST: language of gangs From: JASKE@bat.bates.edu 2) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 16:24 EST From: LRUDOLPH@vax.clarku.edu Subject: "Hooked on Phonics" 3) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 21:18:35 GMT From: Richard Coates Subject: The western Atlantic 4) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 21:58:12 EST From: Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu Subject: Replicability in Linguistics -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: 13 Feb 92 11:31:57 EST Subject: REQUEST: language of gangs From: JASKE@bat.bates.edu A student of mine wants to work on the language of gangs, but i don't really know where to start. Does anyone out there have some quick references they could share with us? Thanks a lot, Jon Aske Bates College -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 16:24 EST From: LRUDOLPH@vax.clarku.edu Subject: "Hooked on Phonics" Does anyone know anything about "Hooked on Phonics"? I hear the ads for it all the time in between segments of talk radio, especially late at night. One of the ads has the cheery announcer asking, "Did you know there are only forty four sounds in the English language, and once you know those forty four sounds, called phonics, you can read practically anything" (or approximately those words). Another that I've heard recently has what is presented as the mother of a young child explaining how she (the child) has learned to read-- by pronouncing all the [va:lz]. So, does it work? (For information, you can dial 1-800-ABC-DEFG. No kidding.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 21:18:35 GMT From: Richard Coates Subject: The western Atlantic On some early fifteenth century maps there are some dubious islands way beyond the European continental shelf which some enthusiasts think might represent some islands of the Gulf of Mexico area. A correspondent of mine is very interested in them. They have various place-names, especially bay-names, marked on them. Is there anyone out there who knows about native American languages of the Gulf area and who would be willing to trade ideas, if required, about place-names of the pre-Columbian period formulated in any of them? Yes, it's a long shot! Richard Coates -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 21:58:12 EST From: Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu Subject: Replicability in Linguistics Many sciences insist that important factual claims be both replicable in principle and replicated (many times over) in reality before they are accepted. Linguistics (together with anthropology) is a notable exception in that it seems that we rarely if ever challenge a linguist's report of some fact or judgement (although, of course, we may dispute the generalizations based on such reports and the analyses based on the generalizations). Having just finished a paper in which I show that a famous theoretical argument from the 1970's was based on a series of mistaken factual claims about the language at issue, and then go on to call for replicability (and replication) before such arguments are accepted, I am curious if anybody knows of other relevant cases (published or unpublished) in our field. (Practically the only such case I can think of involves Chambers' (?) work on the Ontario pronunciations of words like 'writer', wherein it is shown that Joos' claim that some speakers say this the same as 'rider' appears to be a mistake.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-146. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-147. Sat 15 Feb 1992. Lines: 92 Subject: 3.147 Parsing Challenges Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: 12 Feb 92 8:34 From: Subject: same-word sequences 2) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 15:37:38 GMT From: jcb@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Re: 3.139 Wat was was... 3) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 9:31:52 +0800 (SST) From: A_DENCH@FENNEL.CC.UWA.OZ.AU Subject: Like like like -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: 12 Feb 92 8:34 From: Subject: same-word sequences Here is a sequel to the "was was was" and "had had had" story: In German, the following sentence is completely grammatical and processable (it's even nicer when it's spoken, because the orthographic capitalization of nouns destroys the phonological identity): Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen nach. when behind flies flies.N fly.3pl fly.3pl flies.N flies.D after 'When flies fly behind flies, flies fly after flies (literally: flies after-fly flies -- nachfliegen is a sort of posterior-applicative)' Martin Haspelmath, Free University of Berlin -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 15:37:38 GMT From: jcb@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Re: 3.139 Wat was was... mfleck@cs.uiowa.edu (Margaret Fleck) writes in item (3) of 3.139: >It was circulating when I was at Yale around >1980, but I'm not sure exactly who to blame for it (and the most >likely two culprits are not on the list and so cannot defend their >reputations). > John, where Mary had had "had," had had "had had." "Had had" had had > the examiners' approval. This is standard. It was around when I was at primary school (in England) in the early 70s, and I think (though I'm not sure) that my parents knew it when they were at school. There's a similar trick with seven consecutive "and"s, but I can't remember it; however, I think it was rather more contrived. Does anybody else remember it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 9:31:52 +0800 (SST) From: A_DENCH@FENNEL.CC.UWA.OZ.AU Subject: Like like like Mention and use ambiguities when the riddle is spoken: Jack where John had had "had" had had "had had" "had had" had had the teacher's approval. The painter, painting the sign over the bar had left no space between dog and "and" and "and" and duck. Alan Dench Centre for Linguistics University of Western Australia Nedlands WA 6009 A_DENCH@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-147. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-148. Sat 15 Feb 1992. Lines: 64 Subject: 3.148 Nominations For LSA Secretary-Treasurer Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 21:05:20 MST From: Terry Langendoen Subject: call for nominations for LSA Secretary-Treasurer -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 21:05:20 MST From: Terry Langendoen Subject: call for nominations for LSA Secretary-Treasurer CALL FOR NOMINATIONS FOR SECRETARY-TREASURER OF THE LINGUISTIC SOCIETY OF AMERICA The Secretary-Treasurer is the constitutionally designated chief fiscal officer of the Society. The responsibilities of the Secretary-Treasurer shall include keeping the records of the deliberations of the Society and the Executive Committee, presenting an annual report to the Society, which shall be published by the Society, supervising publications of the Society which are not the responsibility of the Editor, and such functions as may be assigned by the President and the Executive Committee. Although the Secretary-Treasurer is elected annually, the recent tradition has been to serve for five consecutive years. During their term in office, all past Secretary-Treasurers have been faculty members in residence at their own universities. They have been able to continue to pursue research interests, to maintain faculty commitments and to meet administrative responsibilities because the work of the Society is generally carried out by the Secretariat in Washington. The Secretariat, currently staffed by 3 employees, administers and manages the work of the Society under the direction of and in frequent communication with the Secretary-Treasurer. Each year, the Secretary-Treasurer receives a modest honorarium in recognition of service, and is reimbursed for office supplies and the expense of a telephone line at his or her university office, as well as for travel on LSA business. The members of the Ad Hoc Secretary-Treasurer Search Committee welcome applications and nominations from any member. The Committee would also be pleased to respond to inquiries about the position and to supply detailed information on the responsibilities. All applications and nominations should be accompanied by a curriculum vitae and be sent to the Ad Hoc Secretary-Treasurer Search Committee, c/o LSA Secretariat, 1325 18th Street, NW, Suite 211, Washington, DC 20036-6501. The members of the Ad Hoc Secretary-Treasurer Search Committee are: D. Terence Langendoen, University of Arizona, Chair (langendt@arizona.edu) Barbara Abbott, Michigan State University (abbott@msu.edu) Ivan Sag, Stanford University (sag@russell.stanford.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-148. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-149. Sat 15 Feb 1992. Lines: 175 Subject: 3.149 Summary: Deictic Iconicity Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 12:17:01 MEZ From: Martin Haase Subject: deictic iconicity (summary) -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 12:17:01 MEZ From: Martin Haase Subject: deictic iconicity (summary) I post this again, because it got truncated last time: Thanks to all of you that answered my query about deictic iconicity (I have added a list of contributors at the end of this summary). As you remember, I started with the following hypothesis, concerning demonstratives and local (deictic) adverbs: "Typically, smaller or greater distance from the speaker/hearer (the 'deictic point') is indicated by closer or more open vowels respectively." I got very much data supporting this hypothesis and some data against (you will find the list of examples for both kinds of evidence below). None of the data seems to disconfirm the following stricter version of the iconicity principle: "if the forms showing different degrees of deictic distance are closely related phonologically (minimal pairs or near minimal pairs), the vowels of the forms for smaller deictic distance are closer than (or equal to) the vowels for greater deictic distance." It goes without saying that the hypothesis does not hold for vowels which fulfill other functions, albeit in the deictic form (e.g. agreement, as in the case of Swahili classifier vowels). For the case of equal vowels, Aaron Broadwell raised the interesting point of tonal iconicity (in Zapotec). In the case of Latin, one may think of consonantal iconicity. Both matters need further discussion. If anybody has corrections to the presented material or further evidence, please let me know. Of course, I'm especially anxious to get disconfirming evidence for my stricter hypothesis. Furthermore, Stavros Macrakis and I would like to know more about the difference between _qui_ and _qua_ or _li_ and _la_ in Italian, and I am curious about other semantic components getting mixed up with deictic meaning (e.g. 'out of sight' or direction, as in Athabaskan). You can write to me, and I shall send another summary to 'The Linguist'. Martin Haase - mhaase@dosuni1.bitnet (or internet:) mhaase@dosuni1.rz.Uni-Osnabrueck.de Appendix: List of examples received: (please check in a grammar or dictionary before quoting) Conventions: DEM: demonstrative pronoun/adjective ADV: deictic place adverb H: high, L: low (tone) @: schwa, T: dental fricative (Engl. th), ?: glottal stop I: high unrounded central vowel ('barred i'), E: open e KL: class marker (in noun class systems) PR: pronominal marker M: masculine, F: feminine, N: neuter, PL: plural Proximal Medial Distal English DEM this/these that/those ADV here there Basque DEM hon- hor- har- ADV hemen (hun-) hor han French Suffix -ci -la ADV ici la Modern Greek DEM aft- ekin- ADV (e)dho (e)ki Santa Ana del ADV ree (HL-tone) ree (LH-tone) Valle Zapotec Turkish DEM bu shu o Tagalog DEM ito iyan iyon ADV dito diyan do?on Japanese DEM kore sore are ADV koko soko asoko Wolof ART KL-i KL-a DEM KL-ii/-ile KL-ee/-ale ADV fi/fii/file fa/fee/fale Amharic DEM yIh/yIcc(i) ya/yacc(i) M / F M / F ADV Izzih Izziya Maringi DEM inye dunye anye Tamil Prefix i- a- DEM inta anta ADV inge ange Hungarian DEM ez az Prefix i- o- Cantonese DEM ni (H) go (H) Mandarin DEM zhe na (H>L) ADV zher nar Panyjima ADV nyiya panha/pala ngunha/ngula Martuthunira ADV nhii/yila ngunhu/ngula Dutch DEM dit/deze dat/die N /M,F,PL N /M,F,PL ADV hier daar Ndjuka DEM/ADV ya de/ape anda Kpelle DEM ngi ti Yatye DEM na'` mE Tolomako DEM/ADV ka(ho) tuha keni Sc. Gaelic DEM sinn seo siad (cardinalV-7-ish) (schwalike V) Swahili DEM h-KL h-KL-o h-KL-le Koyukon DEM gonh eeyet n@gh@nh -Athabaskan Prefix do- no- aa-/yoo- Latin DEM ipse/hic iste ille Portuguese DEM este esse aquele Kirundi DEM PR-e PR-o PR-a Sassarese DEM kulTu kussu kullu (Sardic) List of contributors: Stavros Macrakis (Modern Greek, Turkish); Evan Antworth (Tagalog); Ignacio Hualde (Basque); Dom Berducci (Japanese); Mike Gasser (Wolof, Amharic); Martin Haspelmath; Jon Aske (Basque); David Powers (Maringi); Caroline Wiltshire (Tamil); George Fowler (Hungarian); Stephen Matthews (Hungarian, Cantonese, Mandarin); Alan Dench (Panyjima, Martuthunira, other Australian lgs.); Eric Pederson (Tamil, Dravidian lgs.); Grant Malcolm (Dutch); George Huttar (Ndjuka); Matthew Dryer; Herb Stahlke (Swahili, Kpelle, Yatye); Jacques Guy (Tolomako, Sakao); David Adger (Scottish Gaelic); Min (Chinese); "elc9j" (Swahili); Bert Peeters (French, Dutch, Gallo-Romance, Latin); Mike Darnell; Aaron Broadwell (Santa Ana del Valle Zapotec); Helen Coutsogeorgopoulos (Modern Greek); Melissa Axelrod (Koyukon Athabaskan); Joyce Tang (Mandarin); Frank Brandon (Portuguese); Joseph Bigirumwami (Kirundi); "JAREA" (Sassarese) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-149. ________________________________________________________________ Linguist List: Vol-3-150. Sat 15 Feb 1992. Lines: 233 Subject: 3.150 Conferences & Papers: AAAI -Spring, FLSM III, Germanic Moderators: Anthony Aristar: Texas A&M University Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan University Assistant Editor: Brian Wallace: bwallace@emunix.emich.edu -------------------------Directory------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 14:30:31 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: AAAI Spring Symposium on Propositional Knowledge Representation 2) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 0:44:27 CST From: flsm@lex.ling.nwu.edu (Formal Linguistic Society of Mid-America) Subject: Call for Papers--FLSM III 3) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 16:38:51 +0100 From: lorentz@mack.uit.no Subject: CGS (&P) Call for Papers -------------------------Messages-------------------------------------- 1) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 14:30:31 EST From: rapaport@cs.Buffalo.EDU (William J. Rapaport) Subject: AAAI Spring Symposium on Propositional Knowledge Representation =============================================================================== PLEASE POST PLEASE POST PLEASE POST PLEASE POST PLEASE POST =============================================================================== CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AAAI Spring Symposium Series 1992 Propositional Knowledge Representation March 25-17, 1992 Stanford University, Stanford, CA The key to propositional knowledge representation is that propositions can be represented by terms in a formal representation language, and hence properties of propositions and beliefs about propositions can be represented. This facilitates the study of representation and reasoning about beliefs, nested beliefs, and other propositional attitudes such as desires, wants, hopes, and intentions. Several knowledge representation formalisms based on the above ideas have been designed, proposed, implemented, and applied to various AI modeling tasks. Some examples include Sowa's conceptual graphs, Shapiro's SNePS, Arbab's propositional surrogates, and Wilks's ViewGen. Though the motivations for each of these may appear distinct, they all have to address a common core of knowledge representation issues. The goals of this symposium are to encourage a free exchange of ideas among the various groups of researchers, to discuss their solutions to common problems, to compare the theoretical and practical significance of their approaches, and to explore the possibilities for closer cooperation in the future. Program Committee: Stuart C. Shapiro (chair) (shapiro@cs.buffalo.edu), John Barnden (jbarnden@nmsu.edu), Joao P. Martins (ist_1416@ptifm.bitnet), John F. Sowa(sowa@watson.ibm.com) Registration Deadline: February 14, 1992 Registration Information: sss@aaai.org Program Inquiries: Deepak Kumar (kumard@cs.buffalo.edu) LIST OF PRESENTATIONS --------------------- The following papers will be presented and made available to participants only as part of working notes of the symposium: A Formal Language for Representation of Knowledge Bijan Arbab What's needed in a framework for nested beliefs and other attitudes? Afzal Ballim Beliefs, Connectionism, Meta-Representation, Vagueness: Stirring the Pot John A. Barnden Exploiting Dependency Information in Nonmonotonic Logics Gerhard Brewka Using Hypothetical Reasoning as a Method for Belief Ascription Hans Chalupsky Representations of Collections in A Propositional Semantic Network Sung-Hye Cho SNePSwD: A Newcomer to the SNePS Family Maria R. Cravo and Joao P. Martins Propositional and Terminological Knowledge Representations Daniela D'Aloisi and Cristiano Castelfranchi Analysis of Semantic Networks using Graph Grammars Gerard Ellis and Mark Willems Representation for ViewGen: Structures and Reasoning Roger T. Hartley, Heather D. Pfeiffer, Dihong Qiu Functional Categorization of Knowledge Sakir Kocabas Deductive Efficiency + Belief Revision: How they affect an ontology of actions and acting Deepak Kumar and Stuart C. Shapiro Representing Reified Relations in LOOM Robert MacGregor Propositionally Representing Incomplete Knowledge about Existence Anthony S. Maida SNePS_R: SNePS with Resources Nuno J. Mamede The STRICT Assumption: A Propositional Approach to Change Carlos Pinto-Ferreira and Joao P. Martins Belief Spaces: Sets of Sentences or Propositions? Stuart C. Shapiro Representing and Reasoning about Contexts John F. Sowa Designating Expressions and Cognition Richard W. Wyatt -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 0:44:27 CST From: flsm@lex.ling.nwu.edu (Formal Linguistic Society of Mid-America) Subject: Call for Papers--FLSM III SECOND CALL FOR PAPERS FLSM III Third Annual Meeting of the Formal Linguistics Society of Midamerica May 15-17, 1992 At Northwestern University Invited Speakers: Joan Bresnan John McCarthy Abstracts are invited for 20-minute talks in all areas of linguistic theory. Papers presented will be published in the FLSM III Proceedings. Please submit 10 copies of a one-page abstract suitable for reproduction (an additional page with examples and references may be included). Authors should identify themselves only on a separate 3 X 5-inch index card, containing the following: - title of paper - name of author(s) - address/affiliation - phone number - e-mail address (if you have one) Address abstracts to: Abstracts FLSM III Department of Linguistics Northwestern University 2016 Sheridan Road Evanston, IL 60208-4090 Address inquiries to: flsm@lex.ling.nwu.edu (e-mail) (708) 491-8059 (phone) Abstract Deadline February 21, 1992 ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 16:38:51 +0100 From: lorentz@mack.uit.no Subject: CGS (&P) Call for Papers C A L L F O R P A P E R S The 8th Workshop on Comparative Germanic Syntax with a parasession on Comparative Germanic Phonology University of Tromso November 20-22, 1992 The 8th Workshop on Comparative Germanic Syntax, with a parasession on phonology, will be held at the University of Tromso, Norway, from November 20 to 22. (This coincides with the arrival of the murkytide...) Those who wish to present a paper (30 min. + discussion) are hereby invited to submit an abstract no longer than 2 pages before August 1, 1992. Preference will be given to presentations on parametric (and other) variation concerning/involving the Germanic languages. We expect to be able to meet travel expenses of the speakers. Abstracts should be sent anonymously in tenfold, accompanied by a camera-ready original with name and address of the author(s), to Tarald Taraldsen and Ove Lorentz ISL, University of Tromso Breivika 9000 Tromso, NORWAY Requests for further information can be sent to the above address or via e-mail to "cgs@mack.uit.no" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linguist List: Vol-3-150.